I don't see why everyone is crying so much over the pull changes. It makes the game slightly more difficult and requires people to be a little more mindful, but isn't this a good thing? Heck, the aggro/social radius on most TDS mobs is already so laughably tiny that you don't even need a puller class 80% of the time. Outside of Arx Mentis, there aren't a *ton* of mobs that aren't unmezzable (ok, certain sirens in T2, can't think of *any* in T1, chanter mobs are usually unmezzable, but eh.) I've boxed enc/monk in addition to my warrior and I don't ever even bother to split anymore. I just tag with warrior and if I get more adds than I can handle I mez. It worked before PoP, it still works today. Though this will indeed screw melee when it comes to endurance, and tank swapping. Adapt. I DO hope they thoroughly test the clicky buff changes. Include Ancient Flames, etc. Also, I hope there's a check in the AA that checks to see if the clicky is still in your inventory. Otherwise people on FV are just gonna pass around the best clicky to everyone so they get their buff and then that's that.
Not everyone has a pocket enchanter or monk nor plays a warrior. It's not an issue of adapting at all
Because fade for most classes isn't just about pulling. You don't nerf game mechanics 10 years after the fact to make 2 new zones "fun" in some peoples eyes. As shiftie said this has nothing to do with their concerns for pulling in EQ its their concern for pulling in the new Fear and Hate zones. They want to try and recapture some of that old school clearing but it can't come with nerfs years after the fact. Its just as dumb as telling people where to have fun for xp when CoTF launched. You don't limit your player bases options with nerfs unless something is fundamentally broken. Rather than being creative with just those two zones or the mobs themselves they are going to nerf everyone's tools that they have come to rely on for a host of reasons simply because it can also be used to pull. For the first time in awhile you guys launch some great news IE the clicky changes and the limited expansion info. But you have to go and mess it up by sneaking in major nerfs at the same time.
why bite into an ability so hard when the zones being designed are so simple? focus on enhancing not subtracting please, I like to continuously improve not recover.
Instead of making fade do nothing when the mob is too high level or too close can it be coded to reduce aggro to some minimal value? That way it can still be used as a tool to drastically lower aggro but not wipe aggro completely in this case. If the mob is low enough level or far enough away fade will work as normal. Also, can we limit mobs that summon or are run speed immune to named mobs in the next expansion so other forms of CC are viable again?
Since intent from 13 years ago matters so much, I'm looking forward to having my nukes become mirrors of mage nukes. Because that was pretty clearly the intent of druid design back then. Wouldn't even require any code changes! These pulling methods have become more and more important in the last expansions because of the prevalence of immunities to other pulling methods. You guys really need to go through the npc files from VoA forwards and do a serious purge of pacify/root/stun immunities. Argin-Hiz should be printed out with the immunities columns highlighted and stapled under a NEVER DO THIS AGAIN banner.
Incorporating necessity of pulling classes again = yay for the game. I didn't read the 8 pages of crap before my post but I am sure it contains a lot of crying about this ... I box a bard and have been waiting for something like this for awhile. My favorite statement is "By adding challenge back into the pulling game we can allow skilled players to once again separate themselves from the unskilled." So yes, crybaby unskilled sing your songs of boo boo wah wah because I box a bard and can pull anything despite these changes. Yay for skill, LOL @ boo boo whiners! The only change I would see is a change to healers fade level cap since rampage could be an issue but maybe that has been looked into already and accounted for.
The problem is they make a ton of mobs mez/lull/snare immune and instead it will just be a massive bottleneck of waiting on 15 minutes to pull 1 mob out of a group of 5 in tight quarters again because pathing isn't always the best and it's really all about luck.
I am hoping this goes for a 100 pages of whining. It has been a while since we have had a epic thread here.
I love how all you people cry about a nerf when all they doing is making the ability work the way it was intended from day 1... stop crying about them finally fixing a bug in the game... Now let's talk about that ZERKER and rogue bug with their AE ability when the hell are you devs gonna actually fix what you said you where going to do last year????
In 10 years. Just like the time it took them to fix these abilities everyone is crying about. Try back then.
My entire class got replaced by a robot. You think that affected my meta-game? Fading memories change = yet another nerfbat.. Just keep swinging guys, maybe there will be a player left to hit when you're done. There certainly won't be a game resembling Everquest.
Green pet pulling was a bug. Clicking illusions to pass through locked doors is a bug. Level 1 characters doing 7500hp unresistible AE's with fireshard ring was a "whoops". Anyone who used these abilities in "not intended" ways was well aware of the fact that they were eventually going to get nerfed. Suggesting "This ability will cause all NPC's to forget about you" functioning exactly as described for ~14 years was inadvertent, and instead the result of an unaddressed and unintended bug is.... something else... hint: I'd post it, but that something else wouldn't pass the forum filter. Here's another example of what that "something else" might be: Guy: We're going to nerf the duration on AwesomeNewAbility. Basically it is sustainable because of a bug. It wasn't meant to be sustainable, even though it works out perfectly that it's sustainable, was flagged with appropriate durations and extendability, and functions exactly like other sustainable abilities and has built-in limits to ensure it isn't abused. Also I am using the word "sustainable" specifically to describe duration here and I'm saying "sustainable" a lot because I like to repeat words and make long posts when I'm trying to pull the transparent wool over your eyes. Player: Here is exactly where you posted that the ability was meant to be sustainable... oh wait looks like the thread was conveniently deleted. Mod: I can see the post, and yeah, Guy said that Guy: When I said sustainable, I meant endurance-wise. These aren't the droids you're looking for.
As far as fling skills go, is it possible to just set the npcs with an immune flag to push, pull, lurch, summon, fling, and banish when needed? Like for most all bosses and most raid npcs. That way any mob can be immune regardless of level. The other way means theres no chance that tactic will be viable at all during a high level dungeon/event when most mobs are red. Why let one skill determine whether or not a npc can be a certain level or not. Removes the chance of trivializing an event after a level increase too. Changing Fade on a whim is like opening pandoras box. It really affects bards the most, as they have been using it the longest and use it more frequently than anyone else. Then theres also the small side effects for those who use it differently than for pulling. Some extra thought needs to go into this. Maybe some different abilities need to be added to compensate for a change, or immune flags instead of a change. There is already the ability for npcs to ignore feign death or fade. Each class has their own unique way of pulling different situations. First determine which classes can pull in which ways, then determine how you intend for certain events/areas to be pulled and or crowd controlled. Then use immune flags or mob behavior to give some diversity to how each event is pulled, controlled, and killed. Pulling and crowd control can go hand in hand sometimes, and rely on each other a lot. The problem with fade was that it was way too powerful of a skill. At first bards would go out of mana quickly if used too much, which made them use it more sparingly entwined with other skills, then as gained more mana pool it became less of an issue. Now it can be chained over and over many more times. Bards been fade pullers ever since. Weening bards away from fade isn't gonna go over too well since they been doing it for a long long time. Probably were better off trying to give them a reuse timer of 6 seconds. As a monk who has pulled for 15 years, this change doesn't affect me that much cause fling is relatively a new skill for us and isn't our main form of pulling for the last 10 years or however old fade is. I still carry my bio orb and i am not afraid to use it! However once they gave us fling as a tool, I used it lots, even when not necessarily needed. But this change is very much attacking the main way bards been pulling since fades inception.
