ROS T1 Group Visible Gear... Is this a Joke?

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Tornicade_IV, Feb 10, 2018.

  1. Jumbur Augur

    This years expansion is a bit special in that regard.
    Completing EoK gives you immunity to special attacks from the green sarnaks, which are also present in RoS. Not having that immunity will likely make RoS harder for you than the devs intended.

    I think RoS was tuned with the assumption that players would have that immunity by now.
  2. DomeGuy23 New Member

    I will have to go back and do EoK if I choose to go that far in this expansion. That will be easier for me at 110 in RoS gear. Not sure if I will have enough play time before it gets warm here in Michigan to do that or not though :)
  3. Tornicade_IV Augur

    oh yeah its the skill hardened raiders developed going to war in cutting edge content . not the extra 2600 Ac and 25-50k hit points or 230K+dps

    yet god forbid tier 1 group gear was 50% of T2 instead 24% of it.

    just the mere audacity of some casual bringin it up after Beta is obviously whining, laziness and whatever other negative adjective an Elitist wants to use.
    Mordeen likes this.
  4. Warpeace Augur

    I never said that. Way to make things up.

    Your right its the gear and the gear onlyo_O
  5. segap Augur

    All you're doing is showing your complete ignorance. Long gone are the days where you need current expansion gear to progress deeper through current content. All RoS content is doable in EoK group gear. You don't even need to be max level. It's what ever expansion comes next that will need the RoS gear. People have told you how wrong you are, yet you keep repeating the same argument based on zero personal experience in current content.

    Perhaps the expansion is not for you. That's a valid opinion. What is an invalid opinion is everything you state about how hard the content is and what is required to do it. You have no basis to judge it.
  6. Tornicade_IV Augur

    Actually I have stated that the content for its level of difficulty merits the ros T1 gear to be a 9% increase instead of a 4% increase.

    I am not seeing really the point of it being only a 4% increase. I can se why people in EOK raid gear would see it as irrelevant
    ROS T2 gear is at 18%
    but if ROS is tuned and intended to be completed with EOK group gear as you say.. whats the point in the expansion?

    I also keep repeating the same points because people keep attempting to deflect the topic.

    I have countered the point that It was the same for COTF to TDS by pointing out the gear was tradeable and the overall increase was approximate 10% for the highest tier gear.

    someone else said the same thing was done with EOK release when the two prior expansion itemization complemented each other and the EOK tier 1 had a significant boost.

    If the EOK tier 1 was only intended for the next expansion. then why even bother with tier 2 gear at all.

    Group geared people benefit form this gear why minimize the benefit for the tier1 gear that's required to make the tier 2 gear?

    In the case of ROS certainly does seem necessary to do COTF and TBM content at the moment at 106.
  7. Bigstomp Augur

    Sounds about right to me. The TS stuff is decent but not as good as the final T2 stuff. TS stuff has generally fallen at about T1.5 for as long as I can remember.

    (also splattering a lot in 2 expansions old gear sounds about right)
  8. Zhaunil_AB Augur

    While i doubt that RoS was tuned much, if at all, yes i'd say that having Essence1 was taken for granted when they thought about RoS content. Dev's seem to always take for granted that people are max-AAs and max gear (be that raid or group) and having done all previous progression and achievements.
    Any deviation from that assumption by a player makes the new expansion that much harder for him.
  9. Zhaunil_AB Augur

    I might be ignorant too, but i think this is an overstatement.
    EoK group gear is "ok" to enter RoS, but i sincerely doubt you can actually finish all hunters in it, much less if you aren't level 110 along with the perks that come from that.
    When you are a tank in EoK group gear in RoS zones, you see your END running low real soon;
    even in early content you're slowing your group down a lot, and later you're more of a liability than you should be.
    Sure, it's the group's average that counts for most things, but well...
    I think you need to remember that if there is any "tuning" going on, it's in beta - and what armor are people wearing in beta? What level do they /betabuff themselves to?
  10. Zhaunil_AB Augur

    For the initial rush, it's raider's better grouping opportunities and, yes, better gear that gives the synergies to speed through any new content. Raid gear gives you better survival rates, e.g. against the new AEs and other intricacies of the new expansion people would encounter. It also gives a group a (much) higher "stamina" and killspeed (e.g. DPS and tanks that have to recover mana/END less often and so on).
    The "raidgear-advantage" for any expansion is significant and always downplayed by people like you and posts like yours, because you overlook that raiding the previous expansion just saved you a year of farming upgrades in the new expansion, since your "old" raid gear is at least as good as the "new" T2 group one (TBM->EoK) but usually much better than that - and not just where foci are concerned.

    Doable in group gear? Perhaps. Likely even.
    A level playing field? Hell no!
    Mordeen likes this.
  11. Jumbur Augur

    My guess is that RoS content(missions especially) were tuned for a full relatively well-balanced group in EoK-t2-gear(and essence1).
    And under the assumption that every group member was giving the game their full attention and only playing one character(no boxing).
    They probably didn't want such a group to succeed on their first attempt either...

    They just forgot that a lot of players are boxing through content nowadays...

    Apart from gear, there is an another difference between groupers and raiders, at least in my experience...
    Raiders are more used to repeated wipes on the same encounter than groupers are.

    If a grouper wipes 5 times on the same mob, they tend to give up, and hope later gear upgrades will make the encounter easier.
    If a raider wipes 5 times on the same mob, they try 5 more times...likely with a revised strat...

    ...Or maybe my raidguild is just that bad...:p
  12. Tornicade_IV Augur

    I made 26 attempts on Doomscale Horde at 102 with a few low nineties and some high eighties before we got the win.

    probably about 15 attempts on the construct in neriak library before getting some help. ( not enough DPS at the time)

    I raided 2-3 nights a week from DON through Underfoot. in a top 30 serverwide raid guild ( going by the raid tracker on reported first win dates)

    We had a good core of solid raiders. many of them have gone on to join End game raiding guilds

    but in the group setting I haven't found a lot of players who just give up on the first. wipe

    There are a lot of less variables in the group game and sometimes its just a matter of getting gear upgrades just as with if you spend 4 hours wiping tot he same events in a raid its time to go back and farm more raid gear before your next attempt.

    I don't think that mentality is much different

    I do think you have a segment of players who always want to go the easy route ( turning down groups to hold out for a gribble ha for example)

    but you also have raiders who conveniently have to log during raid wipes as well.
  13. enclee Elder

    I agree with the statement there’s s higher percentage of boxers nowadays.

    On your second point, casual players now are just old raiders that left the raiding scene. Everybody I’ve talked to has been apart of a raid guild either cutting edge or 2nd tier guild and now they play casually.
  14. draginn Elder

    Wow I'm surprised that people are upset with the choices to get gear. If you cant make your own tradeskill gear I'm sure someone would do it for free on your server if you farmed the stuff. shoulders and back are made by fishing c'mon!
  15. Jumbur Augur

    Good to hear that there are still a lot of "stubborn" players left in EQ. :D

    Btw, I was not trying to badmouth my own guild for giving up early. Rather the opposite, as we often need a lot of tries before we win some of the harder events...:)

    It is clear however that RoS was not designed to be an easy expansion, at least not for groupers(can't comment much on raids yet)

    Regarding RoS gear: it does seem that tier 1 is a rather small upgrade statwise compared to selrach. It does give the impression of being a needless timesink...

    The question is: is TS-gear supposed to be something you buy because you want upgrades? or is it something you buy because it is a platsink that lets you skip the timesink?
    Im not really sure what the intention is tbh...:confused:

    I think you are right that a lot of people have at least one friend/guildie who would make the combines for free, if you bring mats yourself. This will also help with the silly overpricing we see on /baz
    Tornicade_IV and draginn like this.
  16. S33k3r Augur

    The extra practice makes us perfect persistent
    Jumbur likes this.
  17. Cicelee Augur

    I wonder if someone applied multiple times to various raid guilds, got repeatedly denied, and now holds a hatred grudge against raiders in general...
    Sheex likes this.
  18. Darchon_Xegony Augur

    It's not an assumption, it's a design choice. They chose to not have overlapping content and instead have the entry tier of this expansion be more difficult and more rewarding than the highest tier of the previous expansion.

    They want you to complete the last expansion before jumping into the next one. The last expansion was content they spent the time to design and you want to just skip over it because it's now old. They want you to continue through it and when you've exhausted it to jump into the new stuff.

    In the event you wish to attempt to jump into the new stuff outright but, expect to get destroyed because you are skipping tiers of progression.

    IMO I think this is a good thing. I don't believe that they really should be making any overlapping difficulty tiers anymore. They've got 24 expansions under their belt. If you're a player who isn't completed with the latest tier and max AAs, you have tons of content left for you to do. I know I've got a ton to do. As a result I haven't worried myself with RoS much. I have older progression chains, quests and missions I should be completing first, all the while earning EXP, AAs and plat I can put towards making this content easier for a casual like myself. But a player who is maxed out will be pretty upset if of the 6 new zones in an expansion only 4 are upgrades. Rightly so IMO.
  19. Zhaunil_AB Augur

    See, that is one issue we have with RoS in general: "they want" something else that "the players" want - and rightly expect of a NEW expansion.

    That is just a one big pile or crap.
    When i returned, i was in a VERY bad shape, gear and AA-wise.
    OF COURSE i jumped stuff, and i did not "get destroyed", nor did i expect to be.
    Had i been, i'd not have stuck around, i hope that concept isn't too high for you to grasp.

    Of the more crap that follows the above-quoted crap, this is at least half acceptable.
    Only half because, yes, you have content to do.
    But no, you should never be supposed nor expected to do **** in a linear fashion in an open world.
    I do what content i've missed at my leisure.
    And i sure as hell won't "bother" anyone, in my guild or outside, with helping me through that old content.

    That linear progression that you say were a good idea only results in some very lonely people "stuck" in old content that hardly anyone ever visits. The whole expectancy of yours that returning players should do expansion by expansion (or the "weaker" players should "stay behind" - go werewolves - until they've finally beat it, and if it takes them 5years to do so because they'd get "destroyed" in the next and of course in any thereafter too) is so ridiculous i can't even put it into words.
    Really, the only thing that should be required is to get some half-decent gear for the current expansion (most likely from the last one before the current) and join whatever friends you still find online and have fun with them.
    If you had your way, i'd still be stuck in CotF because i'd need to have that completed to survive in TDS, and i'd not be "done" (well, almost) with TDS because i had help getting me through progression to be able to farm my powersources.
    And of course, if you had your way, i would not be raiding current content - so what **** did you smoke to have such a brain-dead idea?

    What are you referring to with "upgrades"?
    Gear? No, you can't mean that - each expansion is an upgrade to the previous one.
    Difficulty? No, you can't mean that either, each expansion is more difficult than the one before it.
    Even EoK was "harder" than TBM - i saw raid-geared and capable people wipe initially by the dozens.
    And the times when we got a whole progression path from 1 to max level (TSS) are long over too, sadly.
    So how am i supposed to make sense of that part of all in all quite thoughtless post?

    Are you sure you don't rather want to play Gianna Sisters than a MMO?
    Tornicade_IV likes this.
  20. Tornicade_IV Augur

    I actually like and have a lot of pals in raid gear however when I come on to the forums and I see the narrative is being formed by the elitist raiders and they counter any question or suggestion that benefits people who do not raid yet doesn't increase their overall power, typically ,with subjective vitriol that has nothing to do with the topic
    Then I am going to counter.
    back when I was a regular poster on the soe forums raiders as a community at least tried to keep their elitist in check

    • 4% increase specifically for tier 1 ROS visible gear compared to an 14% increase for tradeskill and 18% increase from EOK2 sis not linear and appears to be there as a timesink and not viable group gear progression.
    • ROS T1 Group gear is Scaled to 105 (recommended gear) minimalizing the upgrade from EOK2 T2 group gear (which is required for said upgrade.)
    • ROS Tier 1 group gear is not in line with the overall increase in difficulty of the expansion ( this is not an opinion its a fact easily parseable and supported by the overall gear increase for both raid and group content and statements regarding tuning from the devs themselves )
    • Raid geared players are not impacted by overall by this itemization as their EOK raid gear is superior to all versions of the group gear.
    Countered by
    • Are you Lazy?
    • Quit crying
    • oh we had this discussion before in beta
    • Raiders are more skilled
    • upon stating that Raid geared players can farm new content group faster and they benefit by mechanics that slow group progression down one posted suggested this was the dumbest statement ever
    • Raider stating do this content with my eok geared box group
    • someone musta got rejected by multiple raid guilds
    I mean really if you aren't impacted by the group progression outside of flagging Why would so many Raid gear people be so set against an ROS T1 increase in line with the higher tiers when it doesn't increase overall power and better gear as pointed out can be tradeskilled

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