Re-tuned HAs

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Galien, Jan 17, 2018.

  1. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Augur

    This perfectly sums up my feelings as well as the logic behind why the scaling changes prompted me to post.

    Thanks for posting this.
  2. Mediik Elder

    I agree with this 1000%.. It's bad design for EQ. IF you could choose to scale or not scale HAs - that would be a good compromise. Then at least people can go back and face smash it who need achievements.
    The Risk vs Reward of the scaling wasn't fully addressed The XP bump for scaling is there for mob kills. The drops and currency\reward received should also scale accordingly, but it doesn't. So to me, it's broke.

    If you truly want to make HA scaling work, then you also need to scale the reward appropriately.
  3. Millianna Augur

    Completion of current content in order to finish old content is just broke.
  4. Mordeen Lorekeeper

    I'm with you 100%. I kept subs and bought RoS to increase my power and instead I feel like I got the middle finger. Honestly.
  5. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Augur

    This. This. THIS. Finally, after 62 pages...someone artfully articulated how I'm feeling about the retuned HAs.
  6. Tamaden Elder

    Guys, Please less words, more pictures. Thank you.
    Yinla likes this.
  7. Mordeen Lorekeeper

    Please, less words, period. :p
  8. Sheex Augur

  9. Mordeen Lorekeeper

    @Sheex lmfao score and slam dunk. :D
  10. Tamaden Elder

    You guys worry too much, DB getting ready to lunch Marketplace Task Adds for $12..... All will get their progression done no problem.
  11. Millianna Augur

    If they do, they can shovel those were the sun doesn’t shine.
  12. Galien Journeyman

    Logged in as a level 3 unguilded little lurker:

    [Sat Feb 10 14:23:16 2018] Channels: 1=NewPlayers(88), 2=General(220), 3=Druid(21), 4=Antonica(13)

    /w all [My Guildname]

    [Sat Feb 10 14:23:33 2018] ---------------------------
    [Sat Feb 10 14:23:33 2018] There are no players in EverQuest that match those who filters.
    [Sat Feb 10 14:23:47 2018] Players in EverQuest:
    [Sat Feb 10 14:23:47 2018] ---------------------------

    Fingers crossed for a happy..., progression.
  13. Mezz Lorekeeper

    I am a little torn on this HA scaling. First, I am already on record that I think missions, should not scale. It is the HA (merc/partisan quests in an instance) that I have mixed feelings. Regardless, I think we all agree that the way DBC did it stinks.

    I think this is pretty well covered by everyone already, so I won't add my 2 cents.

    • It gives more content for top level players to enjoy and still gain useful experience. Let's say that no scaling happened anywhere. That means DH HA would be level capped at 100. The only place where you are going to see level 110 mobs is RoS expansion, and let's face it that would get old fast. By level scaling players can still see meaningful progression in COTF, TDS, TBM, and EOK zones, along with RoS.
    • Level scaling also gives more content for lower level players to play as well. How many of us leveled up in DH HA from 85 on?
    I think the problem that DBC saw was that too many players were leveling in DH HA and not enough in RoS zones. Normally they would solve this by improving the ZEM on RoS zones, but this time they chose to nerf all old content instead. Also, I think it is time to level cap COTF HA at level 105. Maybe that should be the rule for HA. It only scales 5 levels beyond that expansion release. It seems like the right compromise between giving more content for top level players to play and still incenting players to play the later expansions. Personally, I am sick of DH HA, but I still ran it a ton because it was the most effective way to use a LoTD burn. Maybe it is time to retire DH HA.
  14. Corwyhn Lionheart Augur

    Gyurika Godofwar likes this.
  15. Tornicade_IV Augur

    I don't think the Devs saw HA scaling as a problem outside of that 106-110 was a big boost for the players that was out of line with the scaling bump for the HA's for 110-115.

    its a matter of tuning and individual ha modifiers.

    I am all for the next HA based expansion being tuned for level 110 with ROS T2 gear and scaling backwards.

    for new stuff not the old stuff. The under 106 Ha's versions should of definitely never been impacted. .
    I'm not sure why the scaling wasn't addressed on launch and if the problem was COTF ha's why TBM needed retuned at all
    Zhaunil_AB likes this.
  16. Corwyhn Lionheart Augur

    Some good points.
  17. Tornicade_IV Augur

    i mean 106-110 not 110-115
  18. Zhaunil_AB Augur

    Good thoughts, as was said.
    I myself just doubt that CotF was regarded as a "problem".
    I think it's more likely that a more "general problem" (for future plans) was identified and tried to address and that it "simply " backfired into their faces.
    As you say, old HAs (especially where progression-related) should never have been affected (the "outgrow it eventually" aspect is too huge imo; the mobs can level-scale all they want as long as their relative power grows slower than mine, so overpowering it is possible)

    Provided "the reason" behind it all was to make more "lasting content", then i am all for it.
    Provided, that is, they implement it in such a way that i can ALSO do the "old stuff" at "old settings".
    As a player i certainly do not mind being given more level-appropriate choices than i have with RoS, quite the opposite.
    It's when i can not complete CotF at CotF-difficulty, or TBM at TBM difficulty when i start to mind bigtime.

    So, the best of "both worlds" would be, imo, to make them selectable.
    And on both sides too, difficulty and rewards:
    If i choose to play a CotF-HA with CotF settings, it gives it's original rewards only.
    But if i choose to play it at TBM or RoS difficulty, then it uses those expansion's mob-templates (and their abilities) while they also give TBM or RoS type of rewards (named loots and currencies/XP)
    For ME personally, that would not just "fix" the present situation we're having with HAs,
    but also most of the issues i have with RoS and it's static zones.
  19. Tornicade_IV Augur

    and you still circle back to the main driver of the issue.

    The Devs decided to make group content more difficult for raiders while at the same time increasing the gap between raid and group gear.

    Its pretty clear that the Devs did not like that EOK Group Itemization eclipsed the TBM raid gear itemization in base stats.

    Now they have given raid gear and group gear a huge buffer.

    This Raiders of Scale expansion Is using a level increase and "difficult" content gibberish is a Raider Expansion with group gear thrown in as an afterthought.

    the level 110 Group player is never gonna be even close to the power of a 110 raider in EOK raid gear.

    Non raiders should clearly wait for the next expansion to come out to hope that itemization is on par with EOK raid gear to make any real progress in this expansion.
    Yinla, lolans and Mordeen like this.
  20. E'ci - Knight Errant New Member

    I'll share a perspective.

    IF CotF HAs (I am speaking about the Tainted Karana ones, I have done 0 DH ones) weren't around as they were I likely would have finally ridden off into the sunset from my EQ journey that started in 1999.

    My main gear was the best HoT group T4 available. My boxes were in old, old raid zone items (think GoD/OoW). I leveled up my tank and purchased Dimensional Warrior gear as a jump start. For the remainder of my group I filled out on HoT, got some cheap 2kish hp items in the bazaar, and then upgraded using the Mark of Valor merchant items piece, by piece, by piece over the months while leveling and AAing them up as well in HAs.

    I hit 106 and full CotF armor on all and have been working on EoK (which I am enjoying minus what appears to be a very low named spawn rate) and am about level 108.3 currently.

    I will never again be a 5 nights a week raider (or likely raid at all) and rare will be the week that I play more than 10 hours total (more typically 3-5 hrs).

    Family, friends, and business on four continents keep me very busy. I do enjoy an occasional nail-biter, but EQ for me is a chance to unwind in a fantasy setting making meaningful progress.

    I have begrudged those that 'work harder/smarter' in EQ nothing. So a raider can solo this mob that my group may not even be able to defeat. Good for them. Maybe I can't beat a RoS named for another 2 years. That's OK by me.

    All I need is a way, conducive to my limited playtime (and that includes research on new spells. gear, mechanics, encounters, progression itemization acquisition, etc.) that makes my fantastical heroes move forward.

    Make progression linear (or hard enough it essentially becomes so in practice), ensure that I am continually "challenged", or continue to raise the bar so I can't (at my leisure) conquer old content expediently and it is a game that I simply won't play.

    If this was really a disguised XP nerf there are many ways that this could have been resolved without destroying the ability of persons to bootstrap back into the game (by far the simplest would have been to prevent LotD from working on hail XP or have it stripped after the first HA where it was benefited from, or have it scale down as one levels past the intended range).

    Its entirely in their court what sort of gameplay they will support.
    Support my interest, I will play another 18 years. Don't and I won't be around another 18 days.


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