Ragefire Rotation Discussion

wow. how people agreed to this is beyond me. but if they did,more power to ya

Does no one else see the glaring hypocrisy of Breeze saying guilds that have not proven the capacity to beat targets should not have a say in the rotation when they made the first rotation and had never proven they had the capacity to beat the targets?

I am not a guild leader nor an officer of a guild. I will say that between the one posted and this one, there are many problems i see. and I don't see many who agreed on either one accepting these problems. ROE and Apok deny this one but accept the other one, TL denyed the other one and accepts and pushes this one. ROI well i don't know much about them haven't been able to hear much about them.

My thoughts here: I like the time slot sign up. but i wonder what keeps one guild from signing up on both slots sunday-saturday? thus kicking out anyone else? I didn't see that in the description of this. why not set time frames midnight to 6, 6 to noon, noon to 6, 6 to midnight (adjust plus or minus) and having the first very early morning spot always FFA, but you must sign up for the other three to go for a target. I like the idea of a guild that does beat it going to the bottom of the rotation, perhaps if they have another slot within 24 hours being given to another guild (someone that signed up secondary to the slot) to prevent someone from monopolizing spawns. also an FFA kill puts you at the bottom of the rotation as well but does not give up a slot you may have within the next 24 hours.

now this was just thought of off the cuff... and what happens if TL gets the ffa always? nothing. there is still 75% of the time frame so just some thoughts here.

I am tired of people bickering just because. apock and TL you are two of the most collectively vile groups in GENERAL. you will put down anyone and everyone on the boards, you will do things to try and get what you want and i'm personally tired of it. NOW I said Collectively, not EVERYONE in those guilds are bad apples, just many are. why not take that venom and find a better place to spray it since it's honestly not wanted. now i mentioned only two guilds.... well there are other guilds that have the same issue i just don't know them as well. so what i say is universal across the server.

I think between the three rotations i've seen here, this one has the most room to adjust and make it fair and still give the competition. but rotations have never been about competition, it's about RESPECT. and honestly from MANY here I don't see the RESPECT, to announce that you would rather take a 7 day suspension than abide by something would actually make ME say very well you intentionally and publicly broadcasted that you would not and if you follow through with it I'd kill your account and not suspend it. the reason again is because you did say you would and why would i waste time on trying to get you to realize your error of ways when you won't. but hey i'm not one that decides that...

Because, well, to be honest....most of the guilds cannot raid 24x7 whereas TL (and to a smaller extent, Apok) can.

Remember, lots of things are give and take and is a balancing act.

This.

You're bad with numbers, Breeze. The guilds at the summit (8+) agreed, which is more than the 2(?) that enjoyed yours.

I would like to state that I didn't propose this rotation. I would also like to state I didn't even know what the time slot rotation was until I read it in more detail last night during the discussion. However because the majority of the guilds on the server agreed to it, I support it.

I would like to thank everyone who participated in the conversation, if you have any doubts to the rules posted I suggest you review the logs in detail.

Thanks all for your efforts on this.

It's a swing and a miss however.

This rotation greatly favors TL. Time to step up to the plate again and find a fairer rotation.

Elaborate or stop wasting people's time with subjective posts.

The current rotation is the one being enforced by DBG, so any changes should be made through the process defined there. That rotation isn't perfect, the suggestions in this thread aren't either, but between them and future discussions I'm sure we can come up with something that can be agreed on.

The current rotation was adopted because the status quo wasn't acceptable, it was negotiated by the guilds that were willing to take part in the discussion. This new proposal looks questionable because it included folks that appear to be gaming the process to have extra voices, other folks that haven't even applied to be in a rotation, and some folks that weren't included because they were raiding under the current rules. Neither situation is acceptable for a 'final' agreement. There has to be a back and forth negotiation.

There is only 4 guilds who can vote.according to the rules.

Why are we even considering Alt guilds?...This is against the rules.

Plain and simple.


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Where is the above rule quoted, I would like a copy of that document please.

Communication with Apok

[Fri Jul 31 18:08:07 2015] Dojii tells the raid, 'it's important to give us a time for discussion but..... we're seeing what weaknesses the rotation has now. and what needs the server has. So we will probably have to have even more discussions guys.
[Fri Jul 31 18:12:29 2015] Dojii tells the raid, 'We need to have many more discussions but do small simple changes over time.
[Fri Jul 31 18:16:02 2015] Dojii tells the raid, 'I have just been reading and listening to everyone's feedback. I've been taking notes and getting a real good idea of what the server needs are. And the weaknesses of the rotation in Contrast. --- We are going to need to have many more discussions. '
[Fri Jul 31 18:28:38 2015] Dojii tells the raid, 'I gotta get going here soon guys. so yea... let's do this again'

There is no reason to abandon the existing rotation. Make proposals to modify/change the existing.

To all the people that keep saying DBG already agreed to the current rotation so we are locked into it, let me ask you a question. Have you seen DBG change their minds on anything when the player base calls for it? They have several times. Do they need to put up a poll on what rotation the server favors?

Another question how many guilds were consulted on the current rotation? Seems to me that they announced forced rotation and the current model was put in place within 72ish hours.

If you tune out the posts from TL Apok and RoE in this thread there seems to be a large margin of support.

Ideas land agreements can be improved. I like the new proposal as a living framework that can improve with time. Pretty sure DBG will support whatever the majority of the community wants to do.

Look at the idea not who proposed it. Think of the health of the server and community.

http://www.ragefireforums.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=341

Don't worry, those guilds will sign the agreed proposal found above. Few guilds in que to post as their leaders are awaiting account verification to post on the boards.

So Skyp convinced all of those other guilds to go against their own self-interest before hand, then gave them an open discussion forum to hash through every detail and held open votes (which he didn't even vote in), while still getting exactly the result he wanted? This is Apok's line?

Skyp must make Machiavelli look like Jimmy Carter.

Just going to point out something here, in contrast to the person that said "Only the top 4 guilds can vote".

This could have been the case, if such was written into the current raid rotation. Perhaps including something like "The majority of (whatever it was Skyp said) 51%+ votes will persuade a change, and must only include guilds currently on the Rotation."

Just saying, maybe if you guys weren't so hasty to begin with, you wouldn't feel like you're getting the shaft for your inept ability to word stuff to protect your interests.

BTW, no guild affiliation here - just an outsider looking at you shove your feet into your mouths.

Edit: For you tin foil guys, if you would have done this already - there would be no "pre-discussion" and alt guilds forming the majority of rotation decisions.

This never happened. You're paranoid, perhaps most of the guilds agreed to this because it benefits them. Just because it doesn't benefit you doesn't mean it's a bad rotation.

If you stepped up your game, and could beat other guilds to ffa targets you would have zero issues with this rotation.

The question of alt guilds. the question of the current rotation. the question of legitimacy. apparently if there is disagreement, there will be no 51%+ to change the rotations, ROE and APOK have stated they don't like anything but what is there now (their right to do that). but look at it this way, if 8 guilds approach DBG with something agreed on, with some of those guilds not even included on the rotation right away.... that would look so much better than suddenly 4 guilds agree yet 2 of those 4 do not.

Roshen said that if the guilds come up with a better rotation then they will shift to it, not "the guilds on this rotation" come up with a better rotation... right now you can not get a majority unless you get 3 of 4 guilds to agree on anything. and that is NOT happening here.

about ROE included in the original. you don't like it? tough! you weren't vocal enough to be considered by DBG.... perhaps ROE was the one producing it first to DBG... so they are part of it.. Grats to them. now it does not matter one iota if they haven't killed a gatekeeper or not. they were there at the formation and thus included on it. LET THAT DROP it's a dead horse!

the question here is will this rotation work better as time goes on and can this rotation be changed easier than the other one? both answers here is YES. is this one perfect? no... but it is making better inroads to be able to be changed to allow new guilds. is this a final form? not what i'm seeing.

Add in: ALT guilds. since some guilds formed AS SOON AS the new rotation was announced, that makes them suspect, maybe they are trying to get around and get more kills for one guild... but here is my thoughts: if DBG would go in and make sure that there are no accounts or alts of rading capabilities (low level toons) in any other guild on the rotation then the guild is not an "ALT" guild. there will be no good way to determine beyond this. why? because it's not easy to know who's account is truly who's when someone has 12 accounts, and paying for all 12, who is really behind them? the g/f? the wife? the son? the daughter? the brother? but take those alt guilds out of the listing and look at it still has 6 of 8 (I believe there are two guilds people think are tl's alt guilds) still accepting things. better than 2 of 4.

lets refine this before putting this into play. that's all I ask, is refine it to give people the chances the deserve.