So one of our warriors noticed from parses for the past few weeks that our warriors were seeing 0 Blocks or Dodges, while our knights were seeing some (not a lot, but some). As an example, here are details for one of our warriors and paladins both tanking one of the Captains on Queen Velazul raid. They're both similarly geared so we can discount gear differences. Tanking summary for: Warrior Damage: 24238931 Avg hit: 15578 Attempts: 2171 Riposted: 16/2171 [0.74%] Parried: 78/2155 [3.62%] Dodged: 0/2077 [0%] Blocked: 0/2077 [0%] Defended: 94/2171 [4.33%] Missed: 503/2077 [24.22%] Hits: 1574/2077 [75.78%] Absorbed: 18/1574 [1.14%] Real Hits: 1556/1574 [98.86%] Tanking summary for: Paladin Damage: 30814541 Avg hit: 18408 Attempts: 2183 Riposted: 4/2183 [0.18%] Parried: 2/2179 [0.09%] Dodged: 7/2177 [0.32%] Blocked: 11/2170 [0.51%] Defended: 24/2183 [1.1%] Missed: 439/2159 [20.33%] Hits: 1720/2159 [79.67%] Absorbed: 46/1720 [2.67%] Real Hits: 1674/1720 [97.33%] Admittedly the block/dodge numbers on the pally are low but it's representative of the trend we're seeing in logs of our warriors have 0 of either. This could be entirely expected behavior, but it definitely seems odd.
Nobody dodge/parry/riposte/block any raid mobs at all without a defensive disc. all of the ones you see them doing are from defensive abilities. deflection for some reason negates strikethrough of npc's so while deflection is running knights dodge/parry/riposte even though its only supposed to increase block chance. You see the warrior doing riposte and parry because of flash of anger and enrage. If your tanks don't use any 100% avoidance abilities like the ones i mentioned they will not defend at all on raids
I haven't looked at this since EoK, but it feels about the same in RoS, maybe higher. https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...s-setup-critique-welcome.240258/#post-3534319
After checking my own logs, that appears to be accurate. So, with that information, wouldn't that mean that the only meaningful heroic stat from a raid tanking perspective would be hSTA? (And that things like Shield Block AA are meaningless in a raid environment?)
Is that the case if you disclude warrior defensive abilities? Because don't they increase your rate of dodge/parry/riposte?
Yes.If the skills were working just a bit, being able to avoid a hit would beat all HP bonus pool you could add with Hsta, but that's not the case. 0 dodge, parry and riposte, and this happens in the latest expansions on raid trash mob too. So knights are also concerned by this now.
Yes, the parry number of Tucoh's parse is inflated with flash of anger (and maybe fortitude) warrior discs used. But if the dodge skill works, the parry skill works too. Just not possible to tell you how many of the parry number are coming from warrior disc and how many are coming from real parry skill, unless you never used these warrior discs in your parse.
HAgi is still useful as stated above, but it's taken a hit. The benefit of HAgi will show up in the misses section, but it should be showing up for other skill checks.I brought this up via PM with Ngreth a week or two ago, but he didn't send a response. I'm glad I'm not the only one noticing this issue. We need to get this fixed. It's absolutely ridiculous that dodge/parry/block/riposte are completely borked for raids.
This has been going on since CotF and TDS. Has any level 110 RoS raider (fully geared) stacked hAgi or hDex and tried CoF or TDS raids again? I think top end raiders can reach around 2000 in a heroic stat. The question is are we able to reach a high enough stat to overcome the raid mob levels of heroic strikethrough and accuracy in those old eras? I guess it's just a curiosity since it'll take a change in dev's designs to reinstate tank basic character skills. Until that day we're stuck playing with HP pools and spam healing outside of discs on raids. So ho hum keep stacking hSta for HP pools and (I guess) Melee Shielding. Dishonorable mentions to hAgi (avoidance misses) and hStr (combat stability increase with a shield) as insignificant options.
Didn't we run into this before and the devs had to tune down mobs stats somewhat to give people a reasonable chance to dodge/parry/block/riposte?
That was in TDS group mobs. At this point, simply allowing raid mobs to be blocked/parried/riposted would make them easier. If there is a subsequent increase in their hit size - would that make the chance of a 1hit kill to high? How can they allow defensive skills without decreasing mob dps and not having to large of a per hit amount.
Once again in theory, but a tank choosing to max Hagi doesn't miss more nor is hit for less than a tank going Hsta.
The major problem I have with this design paradigm is that it creates a system where it completely negates core class mechanics at the raid level and makes it so gearing for group and raid environments requires completely different gearing methods (if allowed to continue). This is bad game design.
Yes they are, ive parsed it myself p2aa i really dont think you have. In fact, i am relatively certain at this point that raid mobs have less to hit attack power than group mobs do and HAgi is actually more impactful for them than it is for group mobs. My miss chance is actually higher for raid mobs than it is for group mobs. For instance, here is a parse against the magma lord ghost in gorowyn raid Total Melee --- Damage: 25168119 --- Avg hit: 12019 --- Attempts: 3005 --- Riposted: 11/3005 [0.37%] --- Parried: 6/2994 [0.2%] --- Dodged: 10/2988 [0.33%] --- Blocked: 12/2978 [0.4%] --- Defended: 39/3005 [1.3%] --- Missed: 776/2966 [26.16%] --- Hits: 2190/2966 [73.84%] --- Absorbed: 96/2190 [4.38%] --- Real Hits: 2094/2190 [95.62%] all of the disturbed ancient beetles in korhsa 1 Total Melee --- Damage: 9282848 --- Avg hit: 14172 --- Attempts: 1018 --- Missed: 352/1018 [34.58%] --- Hits: 666/1018 [65.42%] --- Absorbed: 11/666 [1.65%] --- Real Hits: 655/666 [98.35%] bunch of random trash in HS static zone --- Total Melee --- Damage: 41638954 --- Avg hit: 11762 --- Attempts: 5229 --- Riposted: 201/5229 [3.84%] --- Parried: 192/5028 [3.82%] --- Dodged: 326/4836 [6.74%] --- Blocked: 33/4510 [0.73%] --- Defended: 752/5229 [14.38%] --- Missed: 900/4477 [20.1%] --- Hits: 3577/4477 [79.9%] --- Absorbed: 37/3577 [1.03%] --- Real Hits: 3540/3577 [98.97%] I miss significantly less often on the trash, and before you say it, the percentage is calculated off of hits that made it to miss, so even though i defended a lot on the group mobs the percentage is still my actual percentage to miss, if they had the same attack power my chance to miss should be the same. edit: side not, I'm actually not totally convinced that on raid mobs, well, its possible we actually are defending and its just that everything is being erroneously reported as misses. which would be weird, but I'm really not sure.
So, just to make the point i made at the end their clear, defending does not effect my miss chance. here is me against a mob in tbm, facing the mob, and then with my back to the mob so i don't defend Total Melee --- Damage: 4731623 --- Avg hit: 6137 --- Attempts: 1546 --- Riposted: 183/1546 [11.84%] --- Parried: 123/1363 [9.02%] --- Dodged: 96/1240 [7.74%] --- Blocked: 12/1144 [1.05%] --- Defended: 414/1546 [26.78%] --- Missed: 361/1132 [31.89%] --- Hits: 771/1132 [68.11%] --- Real Hits: 771/771 [100%] Total Melee --- Damage: 7672317 --- Avg hit: 6197 --- Attempts: 1789 --- Riposted: 1/1789 [0.06%] --- Parried: 1/1788 [0.06%] --- Defended: 2/1789 [0.11%] --- Missed: 549/1787 [30.72%] --- Hits: 1238/1787 [69.28%] --- Real Hits: 1238/1238 [100%] The 1% change in my miss chance is within the margin of error for the length of the parse.
How much hAgi do you have Josh? That's very interesting to note and shows a variance for strikethrough and accuracy between the different mobs. It's encouraging that we can improve our chances against current raid mob accuracy even if we cant defend against their strikethrough. I've said before, I think player strikethrough is too high as well and neither should be at 100%, just for the fun factor.
