I have done some extensive parsing on the same TBM raid boss, over a year. TBM was an interesting expansion because : 1) It was the first expansion with a complete heroic reset, I mean that you could go fully to one stat with new type 5 augs. 2) It's during this expansion that heroic stats impacted mod 2 (for what interest us here is avoidance increase with Hagi increase) 3) I swapped during this expansion from a nearly full type 5 Hagi set to a nearly full type 5 Hsta set, and compared the results. Some of these results are posted in this thread https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/tank-parses.231978/page-2 Also, here is a parse of General Dekloaz ghost (other mini boss in Gorowyn, you can assume devs made them around the same in term of melee dmg) Total Melee --- Damage: 4177469 --- Avg hit: 9081 --- Attempts: 654 --- Riposted: 3/654 [0,46%] --- Parried: 14/651 [2,15%] --- Defended: 17/654 [2,6%] --- Missed: 167/637 [26,22%] --- Hits: 470/637 [73,78%] --- Absorbed: 10/470 [2,13%] --- Real Hits: 460/470 [97,87%] I had 1325 Hagi with tribute and PS running, so 505 less Hagi than you and around 25 avoidance less. My miss % is 26,22 % and yours is 26,16 %. Also you tanked this ghost way longer than me, so "in theory" you should have came with extra miss number with your high Hagi output.
So neither of our parses is really long enough to account for margin of error; however, the number that really matters is your avoidance AC. it also depends on what you used while fighting. Obviously, if you used fortitude during that fight than the parse is completely irrelevant. I assume you didn't though because it would be kinda silly to waste fort on such an easy mob. Still, since we are different classes and there are many things that go into making your avoidance AC we need to compare our avoidance AC numbers. mine is 3684 all buffed, buffs like preeminent foresight increases your avoidance AC. Evasive discipline would too but i seriously doubt warriors are using that. Correct me if I'm wrong. Fortitude Discipline actually works by increasing your avoidance AC to an absurd number, click it and check your avoidance AC, it goes through the freakin roof. Unless there is something more happening behind the scenes, that's how it works, there's no cap or anything like that. If it were theoretically possible to raise your avoidance AC that high without fortitude, then you wouldn't get hit. So, increasing your avoidance AC with HAgi is doing something, its just still debatable whether or not its enough to beat out the effect of HSta. And honestly I don't think we can ever get an answer to that. The parses you posted in that other thread only reinforce that no answer is forthcoming. You are higher with HSta parses which means that there are other factors at play that are clouding the issue. Because HSta obviously wouldn't increase your avoidance, or if it does things are even more messed up than we think. The most compelling argument for HSta is that having more hp helps with spell damage while HAgi wouldn't. Really though, the main issue is the fact that we don't defend at all. I want to hear from ANYBODY, anywhere who likes the fact that we don't defend at all on raid mobs. Does anybody like this design decision, that HDex, shield block aa's, guardian circle, and dozens of other avoidance abilities are completely useless against raid mobs. And is anybody else annoyed that there is 0 response from the devs on this.
I feel like an idiot, I'm asking myself, why do raid mobs miss so much more, and then it hit me, somnolence of course. and, freakin gut punch, those 2 abilities alone would have more of an effect than any amount of HAgi you could ever hope to get. I checked stacking by casting them on myself and only the highest version counts. Two of that particular SPA does not further decrease your accuracy attack power Here are two 30 minute parses against a TDS mob, one with 15% somnolence (the highest my 96 enchanter could cast) and one without it Total Melee --- Damage: 8237245 --- Avg hit: 3878 --- Attempts: 3412 --- Missed: 1288/3412 [37.75%] --- Hits: 2124/3412 [62.25%] --- Real Hits: 2124/2124 [100%] Total Melee --- Damage: 7020728 --- Avg hit: 3657 --- Attempts: 3362 --- Missed: 1442/3362 [42.89%] --- Hits: 1920/3362 [57.11%] --- Real Hits: 1920/1920 [100%] I'm sure this isn't news to most people but it's relevant information to the discussion and one of the primary reasons why it would be very difficult to get an accurate avoidance parse on a raid. if your warriors are gut punching and your enchanters are doing a good job keeping somnolence on every mob than your parses are going to look completely different from someone who is in a raid where they aren't. edit: linked wrong parse
Thanks Josh. More damnation of hAgi in favor of hSta for tanks and hStr as a secondary stat (really?). For the record, SPA 184 debuffs for tanks include: Warriors: 1st Spire, Gut Punch Shadowknights: Veil of Darkness Paladins:
I didn't use fortitude and we never use Evasive disc. My avoidance AC unbuffed is 3114. Hsta is for me the "default" stat, because the other 2 don't work in raid. Clearly if you read the description of heroic stats, devs targeted HAgi and Hdex the best tank stats, not Hsta. I agree this trend needs to be corrected, and we should be able to avoid a bit at least against raid mobs. Also as it has been said, tanks that choose Hsta don't choose it for the melee shielding purpose (look at how many points you need to get for a 1% melee shielding difference, and translate 1% of mob dmg it's really low), but for the thing that works, more HP, to compensate for the very hard AE that raid boss do nowadays. Also, Hagi is my secondary stat. While I wear only type 5 aug Hsta favored, I wear a mix of Hsta, Hagi and Hdex augs in type 7/8. Often, there are 2 heroics on augs. Atm I have only 5 type 7/8 augs with Hsta only on it (and maybe Hstr as secondary stat, but I don't look).
One other possible assumption made in all these raid parses are enchanter debuffs. They have two different dots that affect a mob's accuracy, and significant amounts. Deluding Constriction - 109 dot that decreases accuracy by 10% (This is a spell which can be recast whenever to keep it up) Mental Contortion - AA dot that reduces accuracy by 25% for 3 minutes with a 9 min recast. So if it is resisted or down, accuracy debuffs can differ by 15% at any time. Plus with dot cap fun, its quite possible that after one wears off, it is never replaced. I guess you can search the parses for damage from these dots to check if that was affecting them.
Parsing details like this is tough. You really need to go in with a dedicated team and fight a boss that doesn't require you maintain DPS in order to survive.
I bet you can do it with alot of work on the parse. You can't just run the program and look at the data, but need to figure it out by hand. But unless things like that are taken into account, you can't even compare 2 parses of the same fight with the same character for misses.
I did a parse this morning in Gates of Kor-Sha, fighting sarnaks and 1 Kaznak spawn. I enabled strike through messages so I could count them. I've been focusing on hSta. Heroic Dexterity was around 1125. Heroic Agility was around 1100. The numbers ... "Your opponent strikes through your defenses!" = 10856 Total melee attempts = 15379 Strike through percentage = 10856 / 15379 = 70.59 % /GU Tanking summary for: Wulfhere --- Total Melee --- Damage: 72130235 --- Avg hit: 7199 --- Attempts: 15379 --- Riposted: 509/15379 [3.31%] --- Parried: 762/14870 [5.12%] --- Dodged: 806/14108 [5.71%] --- Blocked: 518/13302 [3.89%] --- Defended: 2595/15379 [16.87%] --- Missed: 2441/12784 [19.09%] --- Hits: 10343/12784 [80.91%] --- Absorbed: 323/10343 [3.12%] --- Real Hits: 10020/10343 [96.88%]
On a curious note, even though mobs are striking through defenses at a very high rate nowadays we're still getting "credit' for defending. The evidence comes from abilities like knight Guardian ability lines that trigger on bash, riposte, and block (huh?) skills. Even against current raid mobs, that we cannot defend against, an ability like this procs outside of bash attempts. [55377] Blessed Guardian Effect Target: Self Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes Stacking: Holy Guardian's Shield 4 Focusable: No Casting: 0s Duration: 3m (30 ticks) Song, Dispelable: Yes Max Hits: 120 Offensive Proc Casts 4: Cast: Blessed Guardian Heal on Skill Use (10000) 5: Limit Skill: Bash 6: Add Skill Proc: Blessed Guardian Heal with 3200% Rate Mod 7: Limit Skill: Block 8: Limit Skill: Riposte @Prathun is that "7: Limit Skill: Block" a bug since it's SPA=428, base1=11. If that doesn't include the shield block skill (knight's can't Block) then it's not firing at the expected rate. Checking that monk's have the same SPA=428 for Protection of the Shadewalker so it either includes both skills or the knight abilities are bugged.
