Preview of Upcoming Changes to Combat Escape AA Abilities

Discussion in 'News and Announcements' started by Dzarn, Sep 30, 2019.

  1. smash Augur

    You seem to lack the basic knowledge that just because you got Pacify, you should not have best Fade.

    Just because some classes got pacify, does not mean they should have best or second best fade, which you seem to think.

    Beastlords are child classes of monk and shamans.
    Does that mean we got all the powers of monks, no we got a few.
    Does that mean we can heal as good as shamans, or slow as good, or buff as good ?
    No, we got lesser powers of shamans, our heal is slow, our haste is 53%, our focus lacks the 3 extra buffs, our slow is lower, we lack roots and so on.
  2. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    Less crack please.
  3. Inga Elder

    I don't think 2% cost classes are puller group. It is Rogue, Bard, and FD classes group.

    Feign Death is non-instant Fade ability. For other classes, fade is life-or-death ability. For FD classes, it is life or feign death without fade ability, and instant fade works as QoL improvement (as well as pulling tool). Giving them high cost long recast ability is pointless as they can avoid death without it. I think this is why bst is in this group.

    I understand some players dislike percentage cost, but I don't think it is bad idea. You can hide a rat in a tiny hole in space. If you want to hide a dragon, you have to create a greater hole in space. It makes sense that if you are a greater existence, you have to pay more resource to hide yourself.

    OOC regeneration works as percentage regeneration. I don't think it is a good idea that raid geared players have to sit more time than group geared players. Percentage regeneration gives more resource to raid players, and percentage cost requires more resource for raid players. Anyway, if you want to change it, you had better find better idea that cost same or less developer resource to maintain and achieve better goal.

    When Scent of Terris AA is nerfed, it took 6 months until it is tuned properly. It was brutal and extreme nerf and I've never get angry about Everquest nerf before. Necromancers had to deal with 90 points worse magic resist than now, not only in TBL but also all over Norrath, and I had to swap out all magic based DoT during that time.

    It is great improvement that nobody have to deal with 20% cost. I wish developers try to keep communication with everquest players community this way.
  4. kizant Augur

    Fade and pacify have nothing to do with one another.
  5. Wulfhere Augur

    You're the one suggesting "nerf". If you read what I said, I called for Bsts to get FD skill at level 35.
  6. Wulfhere Augur

    You seem to lack basic reading comprehension because I don't think that. I was making a comparison in order to debate the fade group design decision. So far that constructive debate has worked to improve the Dev's proposal for most every class. You're welcome.

    I'm still arguing that Beastlord should get FD skill at 35 so as to have legit membership in the elite Feign Death Fade Club. I think it's great that the fade change grants Heroic 85 characters a high cost escape ability (see the business decision here?).
  7. Spooky Elder

    Would only lose mana if you start over your natural mana pool. It was obviously a facetious comment. The point remains that upgrading gear is a significant nerf to bard's fade ability especially in PoP because mana regen is fixed.
  8. Triconix Augur

    If you're going to be arguing semantics, at least be right about it. The relative power of the ability remains the same. If you are 85 it will be +5. If you are 115 it will be +5. The ability doesn't get more powerful, you do. As you gain levels you'll be fighting higher level mobs so the ability will remain a constant as your progress. The ability doesn't go from +5 to +6 going from 85 to 90. That would be an example of getting more powerful as you level.

    Even then my above statement is incorrect when looking at it from a mathematical point of view. The ability actually decreases in power pretty substantially as you level up. At level 85, it will work on mobs 5.88% above your level. At level 115 it will drop down all the way to 4.3% above your level. If the item were to get more powerful or even remain same relatively, it would have to either be percentage based or have the level effectiveness increase as you go up. However, it does neither of these things. It remains a constant +5 of your current level.

    Therefore, no matter how you look at it, your statement is completely false.
    Wulfhere likes this.
  9. kizant Augur

    I'm hoping you're just joking but I'll reply anyway for fun.

    Relative power implies that the power is changing in relation to something else. If it's changing then it's not a constant. The rate of change is constant but the power is increasing. If you really want to make that argument then you shouldn't complain about a constant 8% mana cost. The relative amount of mana used is always the same 8% as your mana pool increases.

    Here you're arguing something which I never stated. All I said is that the power of the ability increases with level. I never said that the amount of that increase per level remains the same.
    Wulfhere likes this.
  10. Corwyhn Lionheart Augur

    You were correct in your initial paragraph. How much above your level by percentage is irrelevant. The 5 level gap is all you would look at.
  11. shep569 Journeyman

    Sadly, my post makes a ton of sense. ;) Which part is garbage and give me examples of why? Oh wait, thats right you cant; because what im saying are all issues Daybreak has done nothing about. So, your thoughts are garbage. lol :cool:
  12. shep569 Journeyman

    The issue is not managing aggro disc, aa, procs properly or timing aggro at the right times. its the "FACT" that even in Group content a Warrior at Current (CAN easily out dps) 90% of classes and even with the amount of DPS the warrior is providing + Procs + Aggro disc/aa + Taunt; A dps class (Monk, Beastlord, Rogue, Wizard, Bez) Can all grab aggro while poping a disc that still does not put them over the dps range of the warrior. Makes ZERO sense honestly.

    So Daybreak making changes to something that is so NON-important rather than fixing issues is F* Up!

    Add some stuff that actually makes game play better, better design, more ornamentation slots (capes/cloaks/hoods)... STOP making every item purchasable with $$ to make a profit that goes toward paying already horrible Developers.

    This game can still be a strong game and can bring in new players; It just needs Developers who actually play the damn game and developers who pride themselves in *asking* or *polling* ideas, rather than simply implementing them asap.
    Teylana likes this.
  13. RangerGuy Elder

    Seems to me from a brief read that you are arguing just to argue. You said it would be dumb if spells worked like this and yet can't stop poking those arguing against the AA working like this.

    You can't argue these facts.

    At 110 if I am in defiant gear and have a 40,000 mana pool it only costs me 3200 mana to fade off level 115 mobs.

    At 110 if I am in full TBL raid gear and have a 285,000 mana pool it costs me 22,800 mana to fade off the same level 115 mobs.

    The person with better gear pays 700% more for the same result.
  14. Sancus Augur

    A big part of the problem with % resource costs is that gear does very little for casters other than increase their mana pool. We don't have a heroic stat that increases our DPS, and Spell Damage is far too weak to matter much. There's a big difference between having no worn foci and having worn foci, but the increase between expansions is also really marginal, especially because damage foci can't crit. Foci are also only in a handful of slots; the rest are really only contributing mana and HP.

    Realistically, one ability that can be used at most once every 10 minutes having a % mana cost really doesn't matter too much. If the devs wanted to add % mana costs to other things, though, I think they'd need to reevaluate what gear is supposed to do for casters (and priests).
    Dsuna, Xeladom, Warpeace and 2 others like this.
  15. kizant Augur

    That's exactly the point. The ability to fade and how often you choose to fade are independent of gear. You're arguing against a targeted design decision that doesn't apply to anything else.
  16. RangerGuy Elder

    Not getting dragged into this was just sharing my take from the read.

    To me the design seems to be because its easier not some grand design statement. But having a flat mana cost or no cost is just as easy. The timer is or was the limiting factor for everyone except bards the new cost part doesn't fit to me.
  17. kizant Augur

    One reason may be that they don't want people to use it during a raid as a way of reducing agro. The 8% cost is enough that you may risk hurting your DPS, etc.

    The only other reason I can think of is that you won't be able to use it after a res. Whether they just want newly res'd people to be extra vulnerable or It could prevent some combination of real death pulling and fading that some people might resort to?

    I don't know. I'm sure some TLP player is responsible for some nonsense that they want to stop.
  18. Triconix Augur

    Lol where are you making up this definition? Relative power is all about how much power something has in relation to something else. Cars for example would be compared at a HP to curb weight for a relative power analysis. If a car is 175 hp and weighs 3000 LBs and the other car has 210 hp but weighs 4000 LBs, the relative power of the 175hp car is greater. In this case we can compare the relative power of this ability at level 85 and level 115. They both have equal benefit to the respective level content you are playing in and therefore they both have the same relative power. Playing in level 85 content at level 85 you're going to have a fade that works relatively the same as if you were playing in 115 content at level 115. You could also say this is more about perspective as well. Cause if you roll in at level 110 into level 115 content, the relative power of the ability compared to level 110 content at level 110 would be inferior.

    The range of change remains a constant as well. It's always going to be current level + 5. It's not that hard of a concept.

    Also, I'm not even a caster so why would I care about 8% mana cost? This is literally my first comment to the thread, so please point out where I'm complaining as you say I am. :rolleyes:

    Again, the power decreases as you level, which is what I'm trying to explain to you. You're apparently not mathematically gifted enough to understand basic ratios. If the benefit of the ability has a lesser ratio of effectiveness when scaled up, the power is therefore decreases. Pretty simple concept.

    What you should be arguing in your little [futile] game of semantics is that the power of the ability remains a constant value of X+5 where X is your current level.
  19. kizant Augur

    I didn't define relative power. I think you need to re-read what I said.

    You seem to be contradicting yourself here. Clearly fade of the higher level player is more powerful and it's not like level 115 players are going to group level 120 players. They wouldn't exist. But plenty of level 85 players can group with people in the 90s. In those cases the higher level player has a more powerful ability.

    You replied in the middle of a conversation where mana was used an example. Obviously, you're smart enough to translate that into endurance if that's what you care about.

    If the power decreased as you level then a level 85 player would be able to fade from more NPCs than the level 115 player. That isn't the case. The power continues to increase. What's changing is the amount of that increase. That is what is decreasing as you level. They're two different things.
  20. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    Using a % based view of relative power is absurd when every expansion the mobs have the same +/- level increase over us. If you're 100 and the mob is 102, at 120 the mob is 122.
    Sancus likes this.

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