I agree, I don't see a reason to nerf tank either, just saying the current people in charge of this part will keep nerfing casters and pet classes the most. the whole pet taunt changes in general have been silly, I saw no reason to let pets take taunt from pc or mercs in the first place, but the way to fix it isn't by making it so a solo class cant solo or molo. I don't like to group anymore I duo some but I don't care to group. I made the mage so I would not have to group lol. but no I don't want to see tanks nerfed I don't want to see anyone nerfed, every single class is overpowered in 1 way and lacking in another, that is balance, no need to nerf them at all. can my mage keep pace with a wiz or necro in dps, heck no, and ya know what I am ok with that, I don't think they need nerfs. but just because certain people don't like casters and really don't like pet classes is not a good reason to keep singling them out. feel free to put pet taunt back like it was a few months ago, it could keep taunt from a nuke, and could not taunt off a pc or merc. real easy solution put it back how it was and that will fix both issues, oh and that new aa does help the pet hold taunt but still not enough to really nuke the mob. its about half the taunt it had before they broke it...
How many people have I helped since pet agro issue zero, not that I don't want to just can't any more Yi Min
I think the change to let pets keep agro when in range of melee was a great idea. Let's face it, this game is dying and the population is dwindling. Tanks are the rarest of all classes. Allowing a pet to tank in a less than optimal group composition allows melee to actually contribute. That's awesome! But it was arguably causing agro issues when the pet class was grouped with a tank. Not going to get into the discussion of whether a pet *should* be able to take agro from a competent tank or not, but there were some issues for some (bad) players. And there was also issues with OP pets on Phinny taking agro from tanks with limited abilities. So they tried to fix it by reducing baseline agro generation and giving you Companion's Provocative Demeanor. Awesome! You actually have flexibility in your pet's agro generation. However, just like EVERYTHING in TBM, it wasn't properly tested and tuned. I'm guessing that a correction will be incoming. I don't think they meant to give pets the ability to tank with melee and then one month later completely gut the pet's ability to do just that. It doesn't make sense. A fix will come. Everyone relax. The sky is not falling. With that said, there's a recurring issue with this company. Their lack of communication just irritates and frustrates consumers. Would be nice to hear, "Woops, yeah, we screwed the pooch on that one. Fix incoming soon." Instead, we just wait and hope for the best (and QQ).
The only fix that is needed is to change it back to the way it was before pets were able to tank for melee. Your argument doesn't really work - any less than optimal group can use a tank merc. While they suck as tanks, they are more than enough to handle most non progression group content. There is some other reason.
Call your bluff here as well. The only classes hurt without pet tank or pure melee (not a war). Every other class can contribute to a group. May not be optimal, but still works.
The change to pet tanking is a lot of what Benzarden is saying..Lack of tanks and players, they want to make the game more social and allowing pet classes to fill the roll that they naturally fill for themselves seems beneficial. They need to undo the nerf to the baseline pet aggro, reduce it by 25% instead of whatever they did and then increase the pet hate buff to 75%. This way pets won't hold aggro when the buff isn't on and you can even add the calm buff to decrease it more, or you can switch the aggro buff on and have a pet tanking..I believe this is the way they intended the changes to work, to give pet classes more aggro management, they just didn't do enough testing so we have the situation that's currently going on.
I disagree with you. The change was to remove mage walls. I hardly ever grouped with a tank until PoP. Was really no need for one.
ok benzarden I can see where it would be useful for pet to hold it if say a rogue or someone that cant take a punch like a tank can is with you, however If they make it so we cant nuke even with the new aa running its useless for those of us that want to solo/molo. if they would even make it so the aa took pet back to the original taunting then I could deal without a issue. but even with that aa on my pet he cant hold a taunt, also ive noticed that my hate seems to have gone up, im pulling taunt off tanks in a raid that I have never pulled taunt before or even close... did they perhaps not only nerf pet taunt but also sneak in a hate increase for casters? I am maxed in my reduction aa's and almost never have to even use silent to reduce my hate. well that is until all of this started, it makes me wonder if they added hate to casters and that is adding to the problem here. if I never pulled taunt off my raid warrior in 2 years of raids why would I be all the sudden? I am just saying perhaps the taunt nerf isn't all the issue we are having if they added hate to us? not sure would need others to chime in on pulling taunt off tanks easier or not aswell... I will also say any necro I talk to has told me they are useless aswell now, the hate is way over the top and they cant solo/molo either... it doesn't really matter what they changed to cause this, please fix it, reverse your thinking even, put it back like it was and make the aa a hate reducer then you could choose to lower the pets taunt in a group/raid situation if you so choose
No. You're just flat out wrong. They were trying to give you more flexibility in determining what role your pet could play. The intention was good for mages and could potentially greatly increase Mage desirability in the group game once Provocative Demeanor is properly tuned. If they didn't want pets to tank so that they could eliminate pet walling, they wouldn't have taken the time to make two new AAs for pet classes. They would have simply reduced pet aggro generation and NOT given you an AA to INCREASE pet aggro generation. This AA is a level 1 ability, and it is given to Live players and TLP players alike. Your logic does not hold up. That fact that you never grouped with a tank until PoP is absolutely irrelevant. PoP was released 13 years ago.
Do you even play on TLP? They stopped Mage pet walling long before this change through a series of changes with mitigation of the mighty/pets weakening based on total # of other pets fighting the same mob. Benzarden is absolutely right - this was intended to be an improvement for pet classes' tanking utility, just one that needs some tweaking to get it right. When it's fixed it'll be a good thing most of the time. We realize the perception is the sky is falling omg....but yeah no.
Who cares? I haved played since 99'. There wasn't a dependency for tanks until PoP. Even then I rather have a ranger tank (faster kills). The majority of people who play pet classes on the current TLP do so for the ability to farm. Giving pets the ability to tank for melee isn't going increase groups by any meaningful number, since they are not looking for a group to start with. The whole idea is stupid.
According to the patch, the changes to pet aggro & raids were introduced at the same time. Mitigation of the Mighty was just a hold over until they could put in permanent code. You know, programmers. It's pretty obvious to me that this was a response to mage wall groups on progression servers, because all the changes came up precisely when they released the new progression server. Had the improvement been planned way in advance, they'd have announced it earlier, because it's a massive change to the way pets operate, so why would they suddenly introduce it? My thinking: they needed a way to stop pet wall groups on progression. They came up with a two-change fix. First, they nerfed pet mitigation, which made pets poor tanks for groups. Then, they introduced a change that made it so pets transferred aggro to their owners on raids - mitigation of the mighty - because the mitigation nerf doesn't address the problem of chain summoned pet walls ie where a bunch of mages tried to overwhelm the raid mob by summoning an endless swarm of pets at it. Problem: this made mages unplayable in raids, because pets generate a lot of aggro, and the aggro transfer from mitigation of the mighty resulted in mages getting instant summoned and killed when they sent in their pets. In order to address this problem, they destroyed pet aggro. But then they remembered that hey, mages actually need their pets to tank for them, so they introduced a last minute ability to help mages control aggro, except they didn't have enough time to tune it before the next patch, so it was thrown in without testing and produced all the problems we have now. Now, the change to the aggro rule, where pets can now tank for melee distance players, I don't know yet why they put it in, but I don't think it was just to "improve pets," because why would they want to improve pets when they set out to **** over mage wall groups in the first place? Why would they want to encourage on live what they set out to kill on progression? Because the above goals are in conflict, I think there's a deeper issue here, a design/code issue that forces them to remove the melee distance rule, so as to be able to prevent a future exploit.
yea but that 75 percent increase is still much much lower than the original pet taunt ability. they need to make it so that aa puts it back to where it was not half like it seems to be sitting now. I agree if they dropped pet taunt by 75 or 80 percent then went up 75 percent based on that lower amount your still much lower than the original. say 25 percent of original x 75 percent that's 18.75 added so 43.75 percent of the original taunting ability. and honestly that feels about right I generly have said about half of what it should be with the aa on, so that would be 50 percent, it is no where close to say 25 plus the 75 missing back though not anywhere near it... ive talked to necro and bst friends and they are having the same issue half max taunt ability even with the aa running. we are useless at the moment, still i say it would have been better to make the aa remove the taunt by 75 instead of adding the 75, revert the pets back to previous levels then switch that aa to a 75 percent taunt reduction, and if they are trying to make pet classes easier to integrate into groups that would be much much more effective.
From the 8/12/15 test update (https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/test-update-08-12-15.225907/): - Raid targets on progression servers now have the ability "Mark of the Old Ways". This will reduce the resistances and melee damage output and increase incoming melee damage of summoned companions with increasing severity based on the total number of summoned companions that are attacking the raid target. This ability only applies to targets that are adjusted for the pre-LDoN skill curve. This was a separate action than the pets attacking anyone in melee range change, months later, which was first cited on the 12/04/15 test notes (https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/test-update-12-04-15.228846/). - - It is now possible for a pet to be the target of an NPC's melee attacks if it has the highest aggro with other players in range. While none of us sans a dev can confirm or deny any of the details, it seems much more likely that they are two separate things - sorry tinfoil hatters.
Is that the best you can do? It's your logic that's wrong. You mean to tell me that mages were gutted for only purpose of saving the class from itself? If I really want a group I can get one. That's what guilds are for. Allowing a pet to tank for melee isn't going make mages more wanted. Mage walls are used for more than just raids - and that's exactly what these round of nerfs are intended to stop.
