What can I say I am so happy ,I can tank for none caster groups now, I love it 10 out of 10 DBG this is so awesome , when I solo on my Bst she can dps and the pet is tank and I am healer and use wiz or rog merc hehe I am so evil hehe ,OMG 10 out of 10 again DBG ,you really out did yourself this this time ....Have not played my Necro yet , but I am sure I will like that also Yimin PS can you tell I love play the pet class hehe
You give it 10/10, i give it 1 out of 10. Now it is harder to tank for your pet, that is if you wanna tank. It is almost impossble to grab aggro back from pet even if taunt off, calm dem, calm weapons on pet.
Impossible is not a word I would use. Harder, yes, because agro does not default to a PC in melee range. If talking about a BST and his warder follow this simple set up. Taunt off , put aggressive stance spell on, calm dem, turn off your silent attacks ability. BAM you have agro.
Not sure how it's going for other classes, but my chanter charmed pet is holding insane aggro, my SK can't pull it off if they both start at the same time. On the one hand, ridiculous, on the other hand mobs have absurd HP so I'll call it a win.
I still fear we'll get a massive nerf to pets again, because some tank who can't hold aggro with /autoattack will go whining on the forums ...
I'm super stoked about the new pet changes personally (with strict respect to being able to hug mobs and not worry for my silky butt).... The only named I 'struggled' on killing were the ones that used AOEs which force chain pulled the group members to hug the mob. Thank you daybreak!! Keep toying with mage crap and surely eventually something will be construed positively
Not sure if you were passive aggressively referring to my comment or not. But I have wizard mercs on burn that I leave on burn from the very beginning of the pull. I'm no slouch on aggro. The charmed pet was blowing that out of the water as far as aggro.
Pondorra? Is that you? But no - I was more referring to a another tread but thanks for playing the clown. Charmed mob aggro is quite a bit superior to magician waterpet or airpet (earthpet ... is just sad ...)
Yes, a tank should work for aggro. That's his job. If my pet with pet calm demeanor and taunt off grabs aggro from him, he's doing something wrong. Every DPS class will agree on that. That's because, a DPS class doing their job will have aggro from that tank before my pet does. PAL / SK got their Challenge-lines, SK get Terrors additionally, PAL have Stuns and Crushes. Don't know much about WAR (never played one), but Blast of Anger, Sneering Grin, Roar and so on *should* be enough. PAL / SK are good at aggro, WAR are godly. Use your tools. That's the same as for DPS classes - They need to use their tools to do DPS. A DPS that does not do DPS is a slacker in most people's opinion, and a tank not able to hold aggro against a measly pet is a slacker as well. I regularly group with SK and WAR, and none of those ever told me that they couldn't handle my pet's aggro. Finally quit that idiotic "I should out-aggro ANYONE ELSE with /autoattack" - That won't work. Not against pets and not against players.
Right because I'm supposed to know your replying to another thread instead of this one. A simple "I wasn't" would have sufficed.
The best agro tool I ever had was my mage box's pet. No need to use hate discs or even autoattack, just keep taunt greyed out. Didn't even use endurance.
So, you're saying, you always were working in absolute slackmode? Sorry, but keeping aggro as ANY tank by letting someone else build the aggro for you and (perhaps) snatching it every 6 seconds (if taunt works) is a no-go. In dubio pro reo, I'll just assume you are trying to be a nice little troll there ...
So by this schema, how hard should magicians work at keeping agro when they're tanking, Igniz? You seem to be suggesting it's cool for mages (etc) to just turn attack on for their agro, but not for classes whose primary (even only) role it is.
Mages don't work for aggro. We don't tank. We DPS. Our pets should, if using tanking options (weapons, taunt, etc.) be able to keep our aggro in check. Our DPS pets should not, especially if using pet calm demeanor (that's what that ability is for, after all). I do expect tanks though, to do their job. The argument "But the pet doesn't actually use any discs or abilities!" does not count. Otherwise, projection and agressor are not broken but working as intended. Pets are nonplayer entities. Player tanks using discs to gain aggro over a pet is the same thing as using discs to gain aggro over another player. If the tanks screws that up, he better learn his class or stop slacking. If he would lose aggro against a water pet with pet calm demeanor and without taunt, he would have lost aggro against myself a long time ago. Im regularly grouping with a SK of my guild. She does not have ANY problems out-aggroing my tankpet with full aggro setup. I am regularly raiding with two Warriors, who seem not to have issues with said pet's aggro either. So any tank should be at least be expected to hold aggro off of a calmed DPS pet. As for your suggested absolute easyness of "keeping aggro while tanking". I have no issues if pet aggro would work only with the player pushing any buttons for it. Give me (my pet) the aggro tools neccessary to hold aggro like a player character, make them all clickable and neccessary to click, so I have to rotate them as well. But then don't whine if I (my pet) actually does a better job than most "Tanks" I know. Edit: as to "how much" a tank should work ... Well, when I am on my SK as a tank, I rotate the for power-line with terrors of the last three levels (101,96,91). With that, I hold magician swarmpets below 65% (if put on the mob right after engage), and other magician pets below 40%. As the three terrors are able to proc Cascading Theft of Defense as well, I count that more towards Survivability than actively using it for aggro purposes. My SK though is a filthy twink, and dependant on any bonus to survivability he can get. I can do that all day, as his mana regenerates faster than he spends it with that rotation. Edit 2: When do we want to stop playing a game of "how little do I need to do and still be at least average" and actually start using the tools we got? If you consider the tools you have at your disposal to be inadequte, try to get enhancements for your class instead of trying to rage-nerf other classes yet again.
I'll start out by saying that when I tank, I don't usually have a problem keeping aggro. That being said, one of YOUR tools is the 'back' button. If, for whatever reason, a tank isn't holding aggro against your pet, it's also YOUR responsibility to lower your pets aggro. Sometimes it's gear, sometimes it's AA, sometimes it's other issues, and yes, sometimes it -is- laziness. But that works both ways - if you are to lazy to use all of your tools to keep your pet from taking aggro, it's your own fault. Aggro management isn't ONLY the tank's job. And you are arguing that you should get to play in 'lazy' mode by just putting an aggro down buff on your pet, and ignoring it from then on. It's not just your job to do DPS... it's your job to do as much DPS as you can, while keeping your -and your pet's- aggro from going over the tanks, regardless of how well the tank is doing, at that point in time. Once again, people always seem to forget - aggro control is EVERYONE'S job, not just the tank. You seem to think your pet should be 'fire and forget' ... and yet, you want the tank to work to keep aggro from it. In essence, you are saying you want to be lazy, and let the tank do the work.
So you tell every rogue, every wizard, every ranger, every zerker "If you are nearing top of aggro, stop attacking."? You are not raiding, are you? Yes, aggro control is a job of both parties. But if one party already uses all tools to monimize their aggro, perhaps, the other party should start shaping up ... There is a certain baseline, that every tank should be able to meet. If the zerker gets aggro with autoattach, there is not much else he can do but /sit /afk
How did this thread degrade into an agro bashing contest? Can any and all tank classes gank agro from a pet who is set up to tank ..... yes I have seen it. I have seen pet on add tank while group finishes of mob in camp. Then tank walk over to add and "work" to gain argo, after a little he does snap it. This sounds like working as intended if you ask me. While tank had to work to gain agro on add he is able. But, considering the time pet had to gain agro this should be expected. Should pet classes be responsible for the amount of agro pet generates? Yes, we have tools to reduce and to increase agro. These should be utilized depending on the situation. Pet classes should not be making a tanks job harder. In fact with this change, if used properly, it is a great boost to making a tanks life easier. Pet classes can now effectively act as off tanks on adds. There is no reason a tank has to hold agro on every mob in camp on a multi pull. Talk about making a tank's life harder ,sheesh. For every pet in group that is a potential off tank to tie a mob down so a group can burn 1 then move to the next. Cause lets face it there will always be that one person that does not assist and snaps agro on an add making the tank have to chase it down to keep said person from going splat. The point is this change is not just a boon to pet classes but to all classes. It makes pets a viable form of CC on multi pulls. If used correctly everyone's life is made easier. Granted there will be those that do not use it properly but, that can be said about something for every class. Before any more knee jerk reactions are posted. Take a moment to consider how this change is helpful and how it really effects a groups dynamics. Given the time to really ponder all the facets, I am sure the benefit of this change will start to become apparent.
Quite the leap to assume "best tool" means "only tool I ever used". I see a lot of Mages who expect the class to be a 'best of both worlds' where they can be competitive DPS while conveniently being able to tank with their pets when needed/desired. Great for them, but seems to lack consideration for other classes in those archetypes. And while Necros and Beastlords might have similar flexibility, I don't see the sense of entitlement.
Give them a candy cane and hope they will move to WoW soon. Mages were never intended as a tank class, nor as the strongest burst class. We basically used to fill the gap between Wizards as burst-casters and Necromancers as sustained-casters, being able to sustain damage better than a wizard but worse than a necromancer, while bursting higher than a necromancer but lower than a wizard. That our pets got strong enough to tank like they were a year ago was unintended. We were in good company though. Pets have, though, been subject to multiple "changes", in which they have been dumbed down quite a lot, mostly because other classes whined about it. I have no idea what devs were planning when they made pets able to hold aggro against players, but I am not going to have my class receive yet another nerf because some people are unable to generate a decent amount of aggro. Thing is, if devs get the feeling that pet aggro will need to be "adressed", they will probably do it the same way as always - nerf the damage of the pets first, and look how far that brings us. Mages are already struggling badly, both in damage output as well as mana regenration. Necromancers are able to out-burst magicians sooner than mages out-sustain wizards. As it stands, magicians are a second tier choice both for groups and raids. The last thing we need now is ANOTHER deftly applied nerf to appease the vorcal few.
