Sks were behind before paladins were DRASTICALLY nerfed in a plethora of ways and SKs were drastically INCREASED in a plethora of ways. Paladin aggro is no longer remotely in the same ball park as a SK.
Since the changes aren't live I can't comment in practice yet. If the nerfs flip the tables to the same degree but in the opposite direction I'd be vocal about them fixing that; there should be relative parity. That being said, I feel (opinion only) that sk hate should remain at least a little ahead. We can't do anything else raid useful and it's historically been better and one of our little niches. From looking at the test notes I think the problem is going to be voice, it got such a huge bump and because it can be paired with everything else, it's going to put things out of whack. I'd rather voice stayed as is, and them upping the recourse on Klonda to be better than it, but nowhere near as high a value, maybe like ~40% instead. It's shorter duration by a ton, uses mana/does damage and is self only. Targetable version shouldn't supersede that, especially to this degree.
Paladin are single target agro, we didn't have AE agro till Beacon came out and the community rejoiced....finally we had some 6 target CC for our class. It was never over powered agro and unless we were active and keeping agro on a pack of 6 mobs anyone could take agro from us on all but the one we focused on. Now we have upgrades to our stuns while other abilities are taking a hit. Don't get me wrong, I like stuns, but more often than not they get resisted and normally I don't bother to load one because of that or the mob is over the cap. If the Knight classes are fairly even atm with these changes what will happen with multiple SK AE'ing agro and we are targeting 1 mob, will we be able to peel it off? Removing the agro from DP is expected, it was never intended to have the hate attached it was supposed to be a hate reduction when cast.
Divine Persecution has been one way for many years. Dropping the aggro of DP from 11500 to 1750 is far overboard and I found it completely from left field. Same for changes with beacon.
Sks didn't campaign for paladin nerfs but I have zero doubt they played significant role. Various sks have complained that they couldn't hang with a paladins aggro when a paladin was dpsing. So where was one of first places a development checked? Paladins strongest dps and aggro ability. This is why communities get so defensive when incorrect info is posted. The loud majority is heard, even when 100% unjustified and inaccurate.
Beacon changes are dumb and hurt. The DP change is just making it the way it should have been from the beginning. DP is NOT an aggro tool and never was intended to be. Its a DPS tool that we can use instead of FoD if we are not tanking, or we don't need the aggro. The -30% aggro never worked well because it was an unfocused effect, so we received the full hate for the spell damage. They could have upped the neg aggro, or did what they did do, add a hate override.
The splash nerf hurt me, but I survived. The extent of the DP change puzzled me, but I'll cope. The complete over haul of beacon, took away/ crippled my ability to perform my primary role; Tank and get things off those who aren't suppose to in a timely manner. My paladin sub will remain canceled until this is corrected.
Dropping your sub over it is silly. We have never had good ae aggro. We have always had to go about it other ways. Beacon has been mediocre for years. You must not have fun in game either way. Paladins and ae aggro have barely ever been in the same positive sentence. We begged for years this is just a symptom of the devs intent to limit our ae capabilities.
I have fun on my character that has moved up in power as I've invested time. I've invested much time in my paladin, yet I've moved DRASTICALLY backwards at performing my main role, practically over night. Beacon had draw backs as it was due to it's range. Zero reason for the drastic nerf and it is unacceptable. If you find it silly I flat out refuse to play my paladin and pay it in such a state, so be it. EQ is about having fun afterall and your right, I won't have any when I can't do my main function.
Paladins main function is tanking. If Im in a group setting and encounter 3 monsters with say, a rogue and berserker friend, I should not need to tell them to hold on using certain abilities till I say so when a war or shadow does not. Period.
So a paladin should have every convenience a SHD/WAR gets on top of their existing advantages in your mind? I see where you are coming from now, thanks for clearing that up.
Seriously, people - who cares how paladin single target aggro is compared to SKs or Wars... All that matters is how much time and effort the DPS have to spend using de-aggro tools. And people, barring funky aggro mechanics from mobs, the answer is none. Quit trying to be DPS -and- a tank, focus on keeping the mob targeted on you, and no one will steal it. You want to tank and DPS (for a tank,) go roll an SK. You want to tank and heal others, stick with paladin. As for paladin AE aggro, how many tools we should have for that, and how good they should be... that is a different subject. Oh, and yes - a paladin's main function is AE tanking, since AE tanking is a subset of tanking, which all tanks are supposed to be able to do, in all situations. Should paladins be able to do it as easily as the others, perhaps not. I'm also not saying paladins should be able to hold aggro on non-targeted mobs while the DPS AEs. Again, that's a bit different. You want to AE, sure... find a different tank. Personally, I'd like to see some hate added to reproval, if that's even possible. It's not technically a rune (not 'absorb damage' category,) so not sure if hate override numbers would work on it.
What are these advantages you speak of? Supposedly better self healing? Hmm, when would better self healing matter, perhaps when a paladin is in danger of dieing, say when tanking 3 mobs? Oh wait, that self healing doesn't matter, I must now do all in my power to keep 3 mobs off group. Nm the questions, I see where your coming from and that you aren't aiming for fair tank abilities.
I hope you're not implying that sks asking for help in an area we are traditionally very strong in but had fallen behind on was "100% unjustified and inaccurate". If so, our good friend Mr. Math would like to introduce himself to you. Pre these changes we've been relying on chaining 3-8 spells together to do what the other folks were doing with just a couple of abilities, so the increases for us were direly needed. That being said, seems to me like beacon should: not be resistable at all, have a closer hate value/override to where it was originally, and have it's effect radius increased a bit. But the whole going on a hunger strike and cancelling accounts if demands aren't met and it isn't immediately reverted along with a formal apology, song and dance, is really pretty tired. You'd have a lot more support from folks with a rational, calm approach highlighting the numbers in question, why they're insufficient and offering some suggestions for alternative ways to offset the changes.
Im inplying that several SKs stating that they could barely keep aggro over a paladin, while that paladin was supposedly using DPS spell sets, caught the ears of devs and played a role in unjustified paladin nerfs
If you think board wuah changes a devs mind, perhaps you should hit up the pet threads and join the villagers gathering to tar and feather Daegun for his evil crusade against pets (and puppies). I don't group with paladins, but speaking as a raider on raids it was very difficult to grab aggro if myself and a paladin both wanted it. They would win without much effort and the #'s supported that.
For certain raids we need 1 ability that is an AE. With an override. The nerfed amount of hate is about in line. The being resistable is not.
Yep, no beef with that at all and that's why it seems to me like they should have left beacon more or less alone. It could even stand for a few improvements as posted above.
