So the solution to the Shadowknight class whom needed help with hate, was to give them instant terrors. Fair enough, I agree. With that being said, why DRASTICALLY nerf paladin aggro to supposedly bring us in line? Another 100% completely unnecessary nerf. This is how class balance issues occur, you take a class that is hurting, then give them a very nice and needed boost. Then, for no reason at all, you nerf down another class at same time that isn't needed. Fix the class that is broke and bring them to par. Don't fix what isn't broke.
Beacon of the Righteous: - Slot 1 changed from 'IncreaseHate by 17500' to 'IncreaseHate by 12000' - Slot 2 changed from 'Stun for 8.25s up to level 103' to 'Stun for 3s up to level103' - Slot 3 changed from 'IncreaseHate by 17500 per tick' to 'IncreaseHate by 6500per tick' - Hate Override changed from '17500' to '0' This ability now produces far less hate than it did EXPANSIONS ago. Coupled with the splash nerf that happened months back and the change in disruptive persecution, paladins have only went downwards drastically. As a result, my paladin sub has been cancelled.
We have taken a hit. I don't think the beacon nerf was necessary, and that seems to be a popular opinion amongst shadowknights and paladins. No one seems to have expected a change to Divine Persecution, but I'm indifferent to it. I'm hoping the DP change is the tip of the iceberg of something else, but it's just kind of odd all by its lonesome. Shadowknights needed some carrot. Warriors needed some stick. I don't grasp why we were involved. We're the weakest at AE hate as far as I understand. This change to beacon will bring us into balance with....what? It's not all bad. The stun thing could be really nice. I know it'll help me in Argin Hiz, and I'm curious how much it will help in Tower of Rot. It does seem like some odd power creep though. It's like suddenly giving shamans 80% slow. The game was tuned around these ranges. It seems like adjusting mob levels would be more apt, but I'll wait and see how it pans out.
Canveling your sub over this nerf is silly. However we no longer have an AE snap aggro ability... it sucks
I'm not paying money for constant LARGE scale decreases in my paladins abilities when I've invested so much time in the tiniest of marginal increases. I can play and have fun on another class that has moved upwards with my time invested. Beacon being weaker than it was YEARS ago is only one reason. It is never silly to put your money where your mouth is. I pay for entertainment and to have fun. Not log in to find unneeded substantial nerfs to my class, while others get boosts completely skewing class balances. Paladins had #1 single target aggro for 12-13 years out of EQ's 15 years tank wise. Run the numbers, we have the worst of the tanks now in addition to feeble, non-existent snap ae aggro.
I will run some tests on the pal/sk hate tonight. ironically I will have to find a hate mask as my wife got a t4 rof raid mask without echo'ing anger because she didnt need it. I will try and see how they stack up now with changing to hate crush and fod (her fod isnt maxed, never needed it) instead of dps crush and DP. btw I also agree that it was complete BS to remove the hate override on the beacon, but I am glad they removed the DP hate, it made it hard for her not to be the tank when she didnt want to be.
If both have voice its sort of close... If the sk doesnt use any aa's and the paladin loads a pure hate setup.
Not sure how accurate that is but if so why would we need Voice to even be close to agro? We should be able to produce enough ago of our own to hold a mob and not need someone to buff us so we can. AE agro was week as it was didn't need changed, single target agro I still don't get and didn't seem out of balance. Would be nice if there was some sort of communication when they decide these things and even more so before it is decided. If there are examples why Paladin agro is being reduces would like to see it. If its because another class was lacking.....idk what to say besides they should have asked for boosts to where they were short.
I meant without voice, I will test tonight and see. Before the changes pally was way ahead. We shall see
DP was never meant to cause aggro. Not even the design intent of the aa. It was attempted to be coded with neg hate. It was a dps solution in place of fod when not tanking. Because our other hate tools were sufficient you could get by without fod. But this is a fix not a nerf, it was not meant to dps and aggro. I know most of us are used to using it for hate but really not the purpose of the aa. The rest of the hate issues I agree with. FOD still works for hate. I they had nerfed that the argument might be valid but they did not.
We (SHDs) did ask for boosts, repeatedly. Also, we did NOT ask for nerfs of other classes, only boosts for where we fell short.
We took a substantial hit to our splash spell months ago, on top of anti splash mechanisms in raid like splash bane in ToR. Divine Persecution line has been the way it has since inception MANY years ago, but ok, let's say it was complete error. There was absolutely zero reason to remove the hate over ride on beacon of the righteous in addition to having it's aggro nerfed down to complete oblivion. The range on this ability has already always been absurdly tiny, giving it reliability issues in itself. All this, coupled with it's resist check has made the ability a complete joke now. Add a LARGE hate over ride back to beacon, in addition making a new separate AE hate ability for paladins that is front loaded with decent hate. Issue apology for the silly nerfs that have been happening throughout this year of NerfQuest to the many classes involved. Then I'll pay for Paladins sub again and semi believe moving forward such silliness won't happen again.
Everyone agrees that the beacon needs changed back, there was nothing wrong with it. As to the rest, your not gonna get an apology, sorry to have to tell you, walk it off. Splash needed to be brought down some, it was way to powerful of an ability. It still is amazing and I haven't seen much of a difference on raids. from pre to post. as to the DP, it was not supposed to get that much hate, it even have a -30% hate from the beginning, but that didn't scale well compared to other abilities, so it needed to have the hate reduced.
It's OK, paladins can still cure! Why should we try to be an OT on equivalent terms? /sarcasm off Yes, I admit this might be a bit hyperbole, but nonetheless I get the feeling more and more, that paladins are take into raids mainly because of their curing capabilities, then their healing possiblities and finally because they CAN jump in if all REAL OTs are slow or dead. It may be nice to get a raid spot always (not that I personally would have an issue with that, I guess), but I figured myself a knight in heavy armor, standing between the evil monsters and his weaker companions who COULD throw a heal in fast, when absolutely needed. These days I am a specialized sort of cleric who may get to tank when anything else fails.
My money walked it off for me when I canceled sub. Splash didn't need to be brought down, in situations where it did, anti splash mechanisms were added into the actual event. Zero reason for double and triple nerfs on single abilities that have functioned one way for MULTIPLE expansions. Apology issued, a large hate over ride added back to beacon and a new front loaded ae hate ability for paladins with decent range or my money isn't walking back
We got one of the weakest aa cycles ever, and now our hate's been butchered on several fronts. I'm sensing some greater design scheme here. While I can appreciate Elidroth's commentary about aggro needing to be relevant again, I am surprised he of all people appears to have forgotten the PoP days where one tank had significant barriers to aggro generation.
Hunger strike until they meet your demands? Last I checked paladins have been doing quite well. Citing things like ToR as having "anti splash" mechanics as evidence of your persecution doesn't exactly inspire sympathy. Rot also has anti snare, root, mez and charm mechanics as well. Perhaps the CC masses will join in your protest(s) and in demanding hand written apologies for how much they've been wronged? The beacon change seems pretty excessive and looks like most of the community agrees, so hopefully they'll change it to be closer to where it was. Sks needed love and asked for it, but nowhere did we ask for others to be nerfed, other than perhaps warrior rage that was comically broken via a typo. Say what you will about splash but it definitely provides some desirability to your class in raids. I'm sure there are a lot of classes out there that would be glad to have an ability that's so raid useful, sk included.
As opposed to having no raid role at all, other than like....kiting? I rarely seen a raid that is much more difficult without an sk, but there are many where not having splash would be a hassle. I guess it depends on the ability/role, but I think most folks would like to have one vs none. If the raid has 10 knights at least curing/healing ability somewhat stacks. Sk "utility" largely does not. The logic is, now that hate generation will be a lot closer than it was (yes, sks were pretty well behind), you'll be suddenly relegated to curing only?
