I said Pal raid utility stacks the best out of the 3 tanks by a good margin, because it does. You can reasonably contribute to a secondary role outside the standard “tank” archetype and that’s not a bad thing. I probably could have worded it better, but where did I say you were replacing clerics? As far as “nonsense” goes, you’re probably not the best person to call out people for that after your last trainwreck of a thread.
I think she just figured out recently that she rolled a paladin. She is still in the denial phase of grief.
the idea was to get ppl to think on ways to change stuff we already have and maybe dream up some stuff we should have. no one thinks any of this is going to be implemented without testing. so let the devs read this and set the limits. if you want a change for your class go make a thread. i did. it seems silly that another player and not a dev would take the time to follow a wish list type thread for another class just to keep saying no you cant have that. so please paladins continue on and think big.
Calling Paladins RaidKnight in modern day Everquest is extremely inaccurate. In the only 15 raid guilds to complete all of ROS expansion, there’s 63 active raiding Shadowknights and 52 active raiding Paladins. Raids are stacking up on the PopularKnight class for all the many reasons that have made them so popular in group/solo game. Hopefully Developers use some of the ideas in this thread and properly address that.
Yep. All the guild’s are stacking up on SKs because of how great they are in raids, hence the drastic and clearly problematic over representation with a lopsided ~6:5 ratio between the classes in your example. Mhmm. Perhaps I should have been more specific. How about the RaidUtilityKnight and the GroupUtilityKnight? Side note: did you really scour 15 guild sites and tally up those totals from the rosters? That’s a level of boredom few have achieved. Well done.
Suggesting that SK's are not extremely bad- tanks on raids and not just the group game is disingenuous even for you Sheex. Need a tank for all the Veterans on End of Empire raid? Strong Warriors and SKs can easily tank them all, whereas paladins might be able to only if everyone literally stopped doing anything whatsoever but heal for 30 seconds to let the paladin build agro.
Who said SK's aren't good tanks on raids? I certainly didn't. Overall we're in a good-ish spot (outside of a unique raid role that we'll probably never have), so no real complaints here. And I absolutely agree that Pal need love, and have made some suggestions on this thread and others. Could see a Insidious Deflection equivalent, an improvement to single target aggro, a reaver's equivalent and a few other things being healthy for balance. But saying we're so strong that raid guilds are "loading up on SKs" is pretty amusing. We've always been a higher % of the population due to the group game and versatility, and even with everything that we have going for us right now, she's saying that we barely outnumber Paladins in raid guilds at the 6:5 ratio? Ok. Flavor of the months will flavor of the month apparently, even if all that's done is bring us up towards relative even raid representation with the other knight class. /shrug
I guess I misunderstood you then. It sounded like you thought SK's were a group utility knight whatever that means.
Couple posts back was talking about knight utility in general and being a bit sarcastic about it. I wasn't talking about tanking though, I was talking specifically and only about utility to a guy that was talking about class stacking. Tanking wise SKs are in a good spot IMO, even after leech nerfs and such. My two cents back on topic: -instant crushes -single target hate bump -marr's blessing being made to suck less -marr's gift getting a bump -lowering recast timer(s) on the AA AE's you get -a reaver's bargain equivalent -better channeling (for both knights) -pb ae stun with cast time, recast time and mana cost similar to Insidious Denial (similar ability for warriors too) -making act of valor an AE CH/purify (but still with death!)
This thread is going fine. We were going off-topic. Some other time. \Never change this AA \\7 out of 5 stars. Would click it again! \\\Best use was trolling
This is super disingenuous, at best. You're looking at 54.7% (SK) vs 45.3% (Pally) of the Knight population. That's basically negligible. Saying they're "stacking up" on either knight is purely false. Let's focus on actually trying to get fixes/changes for Pallies rather than conjuring fake facts to try to push a specific agenda.
Numbers rarely lie and tend to paint an accurate picture. It’s extremely easy to be bias on ones own perception of balance among classes even when you try not to be. This is one of the many reasons I enjoy tracking things such as active raid attendance numbers among raiding guilds etc. I have done so from RoF-RoS and I put an emphasis on summer lull and shortly after an expansion releases. Sadly, it becomes easier each year as more raid forces drop off. I’ve shared numbers on active Warriors-Paladins-Shadowknights many times over the years, even when it clearly wasn’t in SK’s favor versus Paladins among top raiding rosters(it has been skewed in SK favor much worst in low end raiding for long time). Anyhow, grats on being the PopularKnight for raids and groups. SK’s long griped that Paladins were taking their spot on raids and that clearly is no longer the case. The numbers definitely reflect an unbiased tale. I will say, not a single Shadowknight ever stated once that it was disingenuous when Paladins were the more popular Knight of high end guild rosters. In fact, it was a gigantic gripe for years that high end roster spots were going to Paladins. Funny how things change when shoe is on other foot. Now it’s fake facts and news eh? How’s that for agenda Lol
Nobody has ever said this. But, what we do say from time to time is... "We have 50 people for the raid, but we are low on healing. I guess we just cannot raid today, even though we have a lot of people here." So, I guess the solution is, if we have too many knights, and not enough other classes, we just fail raid after raid until we ragequit the game, and Everquest dies a little more quickly. and please don't tell me that we need to just recruit healers (and DPS actually). The fish in the pond are becoming fewer and fewer.
Using magelo as a yardstick, there are roughly twice as many sk's as paladins. This is looking at all characters at or over level 109, including non-authentic profiles. There are three times as many warriors as paladins. A year and a half ago when I double checked this using /who that ratio was pretty close. Basically log onto 5 different servers, "/who all {class} 109 110". Did this for about 10 spot checks. Filled in a spreadsheet. Magelo was within 25% of my numbers, altho the cap on /who means I'm missing the biggest classes. Last night I spot checked two servers. Results were pretty much the same. I've decided to do this census again. Cazic, Xegony, Bristlebane, Bertox, and Povar. I'll post the full results in it's own thread in two or three weeks. btw, stacking is not utility. I'm talking about how many abilities are duplicated, and what synergies exist between classes. e.g. PAL + CLR does not stack as well as SHD + SHM.
Some of my personal recommendations: 1.) Stuns have become very lackluster for Paladins. These were once one of our defining attributes and longstanding flagships. If they must remain such a big emphasis we’re in need of better scaling. Versus stun immune content would love to see stuns reflect a SPA 451 melee threshold rune recourse similar to our Refute for Honor Line. Different stun lines/aa stuns could have SPA 450/452(Spell/Dot) Thresholds or it could all be tied into one. 2.) Targeted heals have become far too weak. Remove the unique spell bar lockout penalty associated on Burst of Moonlight line of spells. 3 seconds is way too long in this era of EQ. 3.) Have Divine Intervention component on Lay of Hands last far longer and be it’s own buff. Boost healing effectiveness of initial heal/hot as others have stated 4.) We have one of the least used Dichotomic abilities and it was woefully underpowered even when current. Greatly increase the hate override on stun component 5.) Make an AA for Sanctimonious Audacity line of spells Everyone else has intricately covered my other concerns/wishes more than adequately. Nice job Paladins . Thanks to all the other classes posting some nice ideas for us as well even if we’ve semi derailed a few times. Seems most are in complete agreement even if we’re not seeing completely eye to eye on some other topics
So I brought my paladin out to play again in Sathir's Tomb last night, and honestly, he's not bad for only having 15k AAs. He survives tanking two, three at once. I am sure at max AA he will handle things better, but I don't feel like the abilities he has will be more fun, you know? I wish Blessing of the Faithful had some kind of heal over time component. I wish those instant heal AAs, like lay on hands and hand of piety, had faster refreshes. I mentioned earlier that heals are an easy thing to waste. They're very insignificant. To put them on these timers longer than, I don't know, 6 minutes seems odd, even if they are meant for emergency situations, because as a paladin, healing is one half of your hybrid. I want stuns to play a bigger part. So many NPCs are stun-immune, or the stun's level cap is too low for current content, or the stun just costs way too much mana. The passive stuns from Harmonious are fun too, but I really want to be in command here. I want the NPC to know I deliberately stunned it. I want it to be angry at me. A PB AE stun too, maybe with a DD component. That would be pretty awesome. Do clerics still get that? The earthquake-type spells. It is a slog even going through old content and trying to clear multiple NPCs at once. An AE spell that heals hostile NPCs' targets? Thinking of the SHD's Insidious Denial, but rather than act as a lifetap, it acts as a heal target of target.... and STUN! Double benefit--if an ally has agro, you are also healing them; and if you have multiple agro, you are able to heal yourself for more. Let me think... my main being a SHD, what makes him fun? Tanking multiple NPCs at once is awesome, so I wish paladins got a little bit more boost in AE agro. I know SHDs are supposed to fill this niche, but when there's a bad pull and Beacon and Lodestar are down, what are you to do? What if there were an AA, like the SHD's Mindless Hatred, that caused all your allies to lose agro for 6 seconds (or you get all agro for 6 seconds, however you want to code/word/implement it)? If you collectively as a group haven't sorted it all out within that 6 seconds, then that's that, but at least you had that chance, and not a guarantee since AE is supposed to be the SHD niche. The ability to mess around with enemies. Snaring, FDing... you call that utility, I call it messing around I wish we had a better push spell than Divine Stun, maybe even an AE push (in the direction the PAL is facing); instant roots and flashes of light as AAs; a pacify that actually works on current content also as an AA... Presence of Fear is fun. Why not an equivalent for stunning? Like what clerics have with Divine Retribution. Long-standing tradition backed by modern, watertight science has shown that PALs should always be on fire. PALs got off to a great start having the Soulfire and now have the coolest-looking special Epic Retelling ornament. All their weapons are on fire. But is it enough? What about a damage shield enhancement? Innate fire damage on their melee attacks? Innate fire damage proc? I know PALs have quite a few DD procs available, but are they fire-themed? If not, then what is the point??? A PAL should always be on fire. Much lower refresh time on Marr's Salvation. This is the type of spell that should be cast on multiple allies, I'd think. I can't keep track of it though when it has such a long cooldown. A self-only buff similar to the cleric's Divine Guardian or shaman's Ancestral Guardian? i.e. something that acts like an auto-emergency heal if your health drops below some percentage. Shield of Brilliance for the group? I'd like Vanquish the Fallen to have a much shorter refresh so I can use it on multiple NPCs back to back. I feel bad that I can only share the love once every three minutes, leaving quite a few undead unable to enjoy the nuke when chain pulling. But at the same time I wouldn't want it to be spammable--what if applies a debuff so that you can't nuke it on the same mob in quick succession? Or if it can act like the bard's Boastful Bellow, where if you don't let it wear off, you lose a big part of its DPS?
Yes, I would advocate for damage to be added to some of stuns. I understand the usefulness of no damage stuns and the comparison to a SK's jolt line of spells, however what pally's lack is the utilitarian equivalent to the myriad of taps, so by adding some damage component to some, not all stuns, I think it brings us more in line and will slightly boost our overall dps capability. I play both classes and Pally really does lag behind our opposites.
No one going to mention the HUGE increase in dps that paladins got his last patch or going to just hide that little tidbit of information??
Melee Classes - Adjusted the bonuses granted by Innate Darkblade, Duelist, Fellstrike, Fury, Holyblade, Innerflame, Natureblade, Rage, and Songblade. Reduced the bonuses granted by these lines for levels 40-80 and increased the bonuses for levels 85-110. That is what you are referring to?
This thread is "Paladin future needs" and was started just this past Wednesday. That increase was in a scheduled patch and had been expected.
