It is certainly past time that the Dev's brought Warrior 's up to the other tanks levels of survivability/tanking ability without a healer involved a Warrior should be able to live the same length of time as SK's or Pallies with just our own abilities (no out side heals) this would level the playing field and yes Pallies would be self healing and SK's would be tapping/healing themselves.
As I posted early in this thread: NTtB's blocking of detrimentals is going away. While people can debate duration and refrsh it's unlikely to be changed back. So, given NTtB's limitations how do Warriors get at least parity with knights through the full range of tanking environments? Not just mid sized mobs done one after another in a four mobs clumps for example, but in every activity Tanks are involved in. Fast Experience -> 107K hitting Raid Boss mobs and everything in between. Boosts to resistances, boost to spell mitigation? HP regen improvement + potion improvement so they don't just offset 1/4 of a single hit + some kind of End -> HP exchange? Mitigation alone won;t do it. Mitigation != self-recovery from wounds taken. Mitigtion doesn't put HP's back into the HP bar.
I am sorry but why do you keep on repeating this? Making it sustainable again would obviously be the easiest way, maybe not to fix our class, but to patch it until everything is figured out (when the devs come back from vacation, or remember where the 'Post Reply' button is located, or whatever). You probably do not mean it but it is really annoying when you talk about 'the rest of us' debating while every little thing you say apparently is a rock-solid statement of great value.
No No Battleaxe is on the right track here he is looking at ways to bring the Warrior class even with the 2 other tanks in the game in all aspects, I really could care less about NTTB (if it goes away even) if the Dev's will just work toward making Warriors equal to the other tanks in all ways. Keep talking about ways they can fix our class BB and please drop the S&B discussion unless it is a S$B thread.
Yes, obviously, but what seems to be more likely to happen in the next 365 days? NTtB being reverted to its useful state or devs doing something they have failed to do over the past several years? My post clearly states that reverting this ability to its old form would be an easy (and quick) way to appease the angry mob while getting to work on the bigger thing.
Yes you were clear on that, and it is probably true, I guess I was just dreaming that the Dev's may indeed fix us.
Historically they aren't likely to do this. They didn't with Enchanters, SKs, Necros, or any other class really. It isn't common that they will undo something like this. They are more likely to find some small patch to make it not sting so much and then move on regardless of the complaining. It sucks.
I'm beginning to think the definition of "Fix" the Devs use about warriors involves neutering us, more than it involves solving issues.
Personally I disagree with the 'equal archetype' approach. Better to address specific issues on a case-by-case basis than paint all three tanks with the same brush.
I enjoyed my first steak dinner the other night from the $30 I saved when 2 of my accounts went silver. I still contend that there was no problem with NTTB outside of the debuffs not landing. If there was no other way around it, I could possibly be persuaded to be happy with slightly less mitigation per hit, or slightly less hits, but I am firmly set on it needing to be sustainable (duration-wise) and the stacking issues resolved.
I feel the exact same way. My accounts are cancelled and I been checking this thread from time to time for some hope, but they will take their time just fixing the stacking issues I certainly don't think they will fix the core issue with the class. Maybe they will throw us something next expansion, but then again why would I buy it when I don't trust the dev team to nerf it months later.
Indeed. I don't want to be equal in the sense that 'everything they can do I can do also'. There's no fun in that. In the group game, a tank who can self heal will always have an advantage ... and I'm ok with that. Where warriors should shine is in very predictably damage intake, high mitigation (higher than it is now - arguably even higher than with the pre-nerf NTTB, noticably higher hp pools (we don't have that currently), and higher baseline damage output (again, we don't have that either). I'd also assert that having either a passive aa line or 'sustainable' activatable aa line to increase incoming heals by a fixed percent. This is already possible and available to paladins (inquisitor aa). Instead of 50+% with a 3.5min duration and 15 min cooldown ... make it 25-30% with a 10 minute duration and 9-10 minute cooldown. Voila, the warrior class now has 25-30% more full-time incoming heals from others while still maintaining it's "niche" as the only tank class who can't self heal and relies more on the support of others (as we always have). In the group game with a single healer - the bits mentioned above won't make us capable of overcoming the self-healing potential of knights. What it would do, however, is make us damn easy to heal at baseline in routine content ... and exponentially make us the 'safest' targets to heal on the the really nasty encounters (raid vs arsebeater group named). Being the "safest" tank in a focused healing situation is what we traditionally always have been.
Personally I'm well aware that if one is to have three different models all performing the same primary function you must have an "ideal" in mind and compare all three to that ideal. This is called design. Hand-fiiting "good" ideas on a case by case basis results in 6 1/2 legged stool or cushion on the floor outcomes when the desired object is chair. Understanding the chair archetype and adhering to it on the other hand allows for the Eames chair, Le Courbusier lounge, tulip chair , stack chair....all pleasing and all satisfying a set of common design requirements while allowing diversity in interpretation.
I think this is pretty pointless. Most heals already get wasted because of lack of hitpoints, and boosting heals by 25% is just gonna waste 25% more. I always found the Hold the Line AA just as pointless for exactly this reason. On our raids the Warrior group rarely even has a Paladin in it to provide their aura and epic click. Boosting the HP's instead is far more useful, and more befitting of our class and role. Not that I'm against your idea, but realize that what you're asking is fairly useless and it be a shame if the devs "fixed" us by giving us this ability...
So after all that has been said (it seems to be dwindling down now) after all experiences have been unfolded, after all complaints have been made and after all suggestions have been presented...where do we go from here? Are we posting upon deaf ears (to the ones that can make a change) or are we arguing amongst ourselves? I'd like to see change, I'd love to see balance...and most of all I'd like to BE what is presented upon playing the Warrior Class.
Dev input is fiercely needed yes, you guys know this thread exists, can't say you have not seen it with the big SOE icon next to its title. Please, do not be afraid, you would be amazed by how angry players can become reasonnable when their very existence finally is acknowledged.
I've pretty much stopped using NTtB, because it's become an 'oops' ability. 3 minutes out of 5 means I need to be in control of when it ends, otherwise the massive increase in 'spikiness' is untenable. So, instead of being something useful, it's relegated to the 'oops I've overpulled' hotbar, and only gets used in emergencies. One potentially overlooked aspect, it actually punishes human healers. Merc healers react pretty much instantly to the change in incoming damage. Human healers don't - they need to be told. Way to go, punish warriors and human healers.
You're posting on deaf ears. Sony has a number of players it trusts, and it talks to those (inner circle if you like), and sometimes they can help make improvements, but you better hope they think the same way you do. Otherwise you can try PMing various people with your concerns, but I don't think it'll help. Sony's vision for how EQ Next will be developed (20,000 developers, you're part of the team, blah blah) is laughable in my view. Sony changed their mind on the Gold free SC, so you'd have to get that kind of 'push back' to make any change to NTtB and I don't think enough people care, loudly enough, to find that kind of response.
I don't think that's the whole story. Yes, there are players who are a bit more on the "inside" and may have a dialog with devs in that they feedback and a dev asks them a question or acknowledges the input (I am not one of those players). But devs are very busy, they rightfully consider themselves people who are paid to do their thing while others are sometimes bright and sometimes exasperating amateurs. If an idea seems like it would improve the game and objections to that idea are overcome, I think it gets a hearing. Because of that I've always favored making suggestions in public forums where where they can be tested, not for popularity (we're a teeny tiny minority besides see topics like bread and circuses, tyranny of the majority, and public opinion being dead wrong on many topics) but for rationality. (The Edsel, a car that was built taking into account decades of customer feedback/a "peoples' car" was the most failed auto ever produced by Ford. You can neither ignore opinion nor be directed by it.) Wild-eyed, 180 degrees out of phase with decided policy after they re-evaluate, and most efforts to advantage one constituency and horribly disadvantage another suggestions aren't going to survive the merest glance by devs much less their scrutiny.
Why does it matter that a knight can tank weak stuff longer than a warrior without any healers. Knights can't tank raid mobs or named like a warrior can either. If your class can do everything all other tank classes can do, whats the point of having multiple tank classes? They each get perks. Enjoy what you have
