New trend with all games?

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by CatsPaws, Nov 4, 2020.

  1. Tegila Augur

    I keep seeing ppl with N95s under cloth masks. They're taking masks away from people that need them. Double masking should be illegal.
  2. Nadisia Augur

    Some say ...

  3. Tegila Augur

    It distorts subscription numbers other words: the games player base is less than half the size its profits make it out to be. We should ban boxing so they go bankrupt, because the actual numbers of players matters more than the game even existing for them to play on...oh wait.

    i shouldnthave said "also" because i dont agree with it distorting any of the things you mentioned. distorts power? aas augs gear=power (as well as knowledge) 1 person boxing 4 toons or 4 ppl each playing one of those toons, which one is actually going to be stronger? Most likely the individuals, so shouldnt gruoping be preferable? A group of mains is more powerful than a grou pof boxes. THeres a reason raid guilds prefer to have 54 raiders than 9 6boxers. Boxing does not take away from other players. I will say it again, boxing does not take anything from other players. If someone wants to play with you, they will, regardless of whether they box or not. If you can play your toon and not make ppl want to strangle you, they will play with you.

    oh, and even some more popular phone games are actively adding ways to play multiple characters (the sort of game doesnt group in teh first place so "boxing" isnt the thing, but having another char to switch to to then respond to all your requests or send resources etc etc...its teh same deal) so your continued assertion about games hating boxing, even games wehre one would never even think to box, the developers have tried to make a way to. Have you played every game in existence? even close to half? Those answers should tell you a lot about your actual knowledge of the world's games today.
  4. Nadisia Augur

    Who cares about the WoW community support? Really ...
    Leave them alone, and above all, leave them where they are, it's one of the worst and toxic gaming community now, prolly worse than League Of Legend atm.

    About the WoW boxing community, I'm somewhat active on the ISB discord, and a lot of them are looking for another game, because in fact, many of them are loving more the «boxing» gaming style, than the game itself.

    So, Rift, LotRO, EQ1, EQ2, even EVE for something completely different?
    Trade your bets.
  5. Act of Valor The Newest Member

    We're witnessing the birth of a new Babbleblade and I'm terrified.
    Nadisia likes this.
  6. Nadisia Augur

    Scary ...
  7. Nennius Curmudgeon

    From a corporate standpoint, this is THE important fact. Most people invest in a company for one reason. Money. The rest is the way to make that money. If any of the things rather endlessly mentioned in this thread were to ever change it would have to be caused by a change in the flow of money from player to investor.

    We feel. We like. We complain. We praise. We order pizza (it is dinner time where I live). The owner looks at a balance sheet and thinks about how to maximize the return on the investment.
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  8. Metanis Bad Company

    Boxers like me on old Live servers (Luclin) actually provide a huge service to the server community.

    Make sure you read that correctly, I'm not talking about special or TLP servers where the economy might be different.

    But here on Luclin my wife and I take the time to sift through hundreds of loot drops and put them on bazaar mules on a regular basis. We save people a huge amount of time by trading our own time and effort for their platinum.

    This has allowed me to keep 6 accounts Gold for 20 years and purchasing each and every expansion along the way. I don't like people in general and I don't like people telling me how to run my 6 paid characters or my way of playing. Most zones on Luclin are empty 24/7/365 so I'm not interfering with anyone else. But I am helping to keep the economy alive here and I'm not griefing people to do it.

    I take offense to all these "boxers are bad" rants because their perpetrators don't have a coupon to buy a box of Cracker Jacks.
    code-zero likes this.
  9. Biltene Kingslayer

    Ok, I'll bite. In all of your arguments, you omit significant factors illustrating the state of the game as it has progressed, and as it currently sits. As the population dwindled, the devs realized the problems with trying to continue to maintain full groups, so they implemented mercs. The game itself needed to in essence give us boxes just to make sure that we can continue to progress. So, losing population is a huge factor that has been omitted and is presented as a consequence, rather than the causal factor for boxing that it is.

    The game is OLD, as we all know. Most of the people that play are the die hards that just love the game and the connections they've made with their guildies and friends. I myself have been in my current guild for over 10 years. As gaming became more and more mainstream and more games and accessibility have increased people's choices for games, it becomes harder and harder to remain relevant as shiny new games come out year after year. The fact that the game is still around and still produces new content is a marvel in itself. At this stage of the games life, it's more about holding on to the players you have, rather than trying to open the game up to new players, as much as we might like to think we could bring in new blood, it's just not feasible. So saying that boxing throws up technical and financial barriers to new players is not relevant. There are little to no new players to speak of.

    On that note, you assume those barriers because you think people are forced to box, but they are not. I know many players that do, many that do not, some that only do when they don't have people to group with at the time and some that only reluctantly do so when the group they're in needs an extra hand. Boxing is a choice, not a requirement. Until recently I've never had a 2nd account, and I started one solely so that I could have another toon to help me out with getting things for my alts that I wouldn't want to ask my friends to help with. It's because of that, that I have more interest in playing, and am on more.

    Your assertion that boxing is not healthy for the game assumes that if you outlaw boxing, it forces people to group together. But with the age and the low population, all which increases the difficulty of finding like minded people to do content, it's far more likely that more people would have stopped playing if they didn't have the ability to box, solely due to the fact that there was no one to play with.

    Boxing isn't the problem, it's the solution. It's helped to keep the game going for so long, maybe not on it's own, but it's definitely a huge factor.
    Tegila likes this.
  10. WaitingforMoreEQ WaitingforTBC

    No, i'm not. It's cheating because it allows you cheat the limitation the game naturally creates on you. No really most people really agree with that statement. I know you've live in your little live EQ bubble where most people don't care about boxing cause the game is largely dead. But i assure you outside of your bubble most people don't even like Alt+tab boxing. It's just too hard to enforce meaningful rules against the guy that alt+tabs and gathers Herbs on his box.
  11. WaitingforMoreEQ WaitingforTBC

    It's what the topic of the thread is about LOL
  12. Smokezz The Bane Crew

    You have no clue what most people think, only what the people you talk to think. Go back to the TLP forums.
    Vumad and Benito like this.
  13. Strawberry Augur

    If you make an environment conducive to grouping or not is a developer design choice.

    Differences in levels, gear, timezones, loot distribution, lack of central meeting point, are all problems that hinder grouping. If you remove some of those barriers, accessible grouping does happen.

    Old Man McKenzie missions
    Monster missions
    DoN Creator missions

    As long as you remove just some of the barriers, create a centralized meeting point, accessible grouping happens.

    The majority of EQ just no longer lends itself to easy grouping, but those are design choices developers make. Nerfing OMM missions was a design choice.

    Boxing is not a necessity, not even on low pop servers, you just need to create an environment where grouping becomes accessible, and that's a developer choice.
  14. Benito EQ Player since 2001.

    1. Oh, you main on TLP! The level of idealism and vitriol is on another level on the TLP forums. (This is not a personal attack). I think you appreciate that EQ1 provides Truebox rules and enforcement on Aradune and Phinigel. Why the ambition to "spread the gospel" to Live?

    2. It sounds like you trying to minimize my argument after I brought up the ALT-TAB boxing distinction when most, if not all, EQ1 Live players have boxed that way. It is a legitimate method of boxing. Boxing itself solves the ills I've highlighted earlier: time and work constraints, family concerns, mental health and physical health considerations, etc.

    Perhaps, you need to get out of the TLP bubble and actually play on Live.
  15. Strawberry Augur

    (I understand why people box. No one wants to spend half an hour gathering 5 other players, farm some item, only to have someone else in the group loot it.

    But that doesn't change the fact that boxing, in my opinion, is not a solution and hurts the social fabric of the game even more.

    The fact gathering a group can take too long, the fact loot goes to 1 person instead of all 6, the fact there are vast differences in gear and levels, those are all game design problems.

    When those problems are mitigated like in an OMM mission, suddenly grouping people together happens on a large scale and becomes accessible. And no OMM are not THE solution, it is just an example of how mitigating some of those barriers to grouping, can quickly turn the tables where people suddenly do start to group with one another.

    Boxing does not HAVE to exist, it is a (ridiculous) solution to problems that are caused by game design choices, not by the people who box.)
  16. Benito EQ Player since 2001.

    I looked at your posting history and it is evident that you are heavily involved with TLP. Like 'WaitingforMoreEQ', you must understand that there is a different level of idealism and pragmatism (maturity) between the two forums (TLP vs. Live). There really is no point in preaching the "pure" truebox gospel here.

    If you disagree with EQ1's game design and philosophy (not even Aradune and Phinigel's truebox ruleset), there are many alternatives on the market.

    I suspect the infinite delay of Pantheon and 'Ashes of Creation' are bringing back players who have long renounced EQ1 and EQ2.
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  17. Strawberry Augur

    I don't think boxing should be a solution to game design on ANY server.

    When people look back at their fondest memories of EQ, I would certainly hope it is one where you were present with other players, not one where you were talking to yourself, congratualating your own box on a job well done.

    The social fabric is the essence of an MMO.
  18. Benito EQ Player since 2001.

    Have you played The Burning Lands on Live?

    If you haven't, then you really have no knowledge of the Live game design and philosophy and you may not be qualified to speak here.

    You would know that the devs created mechanics to encourage "real" grouping. Many players weren't fans.
  19. Benito EQ Player since 2001.

    I think Strawberry and 'WaitingforMoreEQ' are projecting their PTSD of mage box armies from their TLP experience on the Live forums.

    I'd like to test their knowledge of the recent expansions especially how brutal 'TBL' (grouping mechanics) was when it was current.
  20. Vumad Augur

    WoW fixed this. They implemented Call of Duty style match making. The result is an ignorant uncoordinated and unchallenging zerg fest in dungeons containing absolutely no meaningful social interaction. But hey, it's great, because it is reducing boxing and boxing is bad. :rolleyes:

    The reason EQ "no longer lends itself to easy grouping" is because server populations are way down. It is easier now to group than it has ever been in EQ. Any melee can wear a slow belt. Monks can mez. Everyone can fade. All priests heal as well as clerics. Hybrids don't even have to change targets to patch heal. The class lines are more blurred than ever and mercs are strong enough to fill the gaps. These are all design decisions that make it easier to group and from the EQ purist/TLP viewpoint they are all far more harmful to EQ than boxing.

    So I don't know wtf you are talking about, other than you just don't like the EQ gameplay, which is the least amount of EQ it has ever been. If the gameplay is so bad that it needs massive overhaul, maybe the issue is not boxing but that another game would suit you better than EQ?

    Wha? What limitations? Let me play out what I do to box my cleric...

    1 (heal tank)
    1 (heal tank)
    1 (heal tank)
    1 (heal tank)
    1 (heal tank)
    2 (heal group)
    1 (heal tank)
    3 (follow)

    And to box my mage

    1 (assist, pet, malo)
    2 (nuke, pause, nuke, pause, nuke, pause, nuke)
    2 (nuke, pause, nuke, pause, nuke, pause, nuke)
    2 (nuke, pause, nuke, pause, nuke, pause, nuke)
    1 (assist, pet, malo)
    2 (nuke, pause, nuke, pause, nuke, pause, nuke)
    2 (nuke, pause, nuke, pause, nuke, pause, nuke)
    2 (nuke, pause, nuke, pause, nuke, pause, nuke)
    3 (follow)

    Just in game socials there. Even my 5 AAs to burn on my mage are a single in game social button.

    What limitations? EQ has probably the least amount of Actions Per Minute of any game that exist. I think it takes fewer actions per minute than scrabble or battleship. I don't even have to look at the box screens. Set my laptop up next to my desktop, hit the same box key over and over and over. I do a fair amount of stuff on my ENC to pull, CC, debuff but boxing circumventing limitations? What limitations? What do you think we are doing with our boxes?

    Team Speak and Discord have done more to hurt EQ social than boxing ever has by a large margin.

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