Pulling classes are pretty well known. Monks and Bards and occasionally Rangers. Necro's were never meant to be a pulling class. Yes, they can pull..Just like every other class, but they were never designed to specifically be pullers like the ones I mentioned. Dev response isn't needed.
Spells and AA from level 1 until present day say otherwise. Monks and bards became pull classes by design most of a monks tools came after the fact. But no one claims to be in a class with them now that it became part of their classes main points, I would even toss enchanters in this group. We claim to be with rangers, shadow knights and rogues. Rogues can pull because of a single spell. Necros have a very similar trap deal. You already want to ignore all the other stuff like lulls, mez, charm, fd, knockback, snare, fear, root and fade. That are continually upgraded via spells or AA year after year based on the classes history and abilities. Yep never meant to be and we pull just as effectively as a warrior and berserker all those spells and aa are just figments of my imagination meant for healing, tanking and dps. You accept rangers as pullers but it wasn't until the 70's that most of the tools lost the animal only flag. Necros still kept undead only for a lot of the their tools but still have just as many that work on any mob. Yet many people are acting like we are trying to pull some sort of fast one on EQ.
By your standard of what a puller is, that would mean that Warriors are a DPS class, because they have a weapon and damage with it. Makes lots of sense yeah?...No..A Cleric in an undead area could be called major DPS, but the reality is they have that as a side ability where as their main role is a healer. When everyone gained fade, by your definition everyone became a puller, does that make it true? Nah, not at all. Certain classes were made in mind to pull, Monks, Bards and Rangers are said classes. That's not to say other classes can't use their abilities to pull, but their primary roles aren't pulling. Rangers had an AA made specifically for pulling, Monks have very high AC/mitigation + high run speeds, Bards have high run speeds as well, they also have songs/AA's to increase their speed to the fastest in game, along with an instant fade that they can reuse until they go OOM. An Enchanter can pull, does that make them a pulling class, no. An Enchanter can DPS, does that make them a DPS class? No..What are Enchanters? They are a CC/utility class first and foremost. The game has been diluted so now you can branch out more from your primary roles, I'll agree with that..But that doesn't make you a puller when you aren't, or a DPS class when you aren't.
Eh I liked it better when they could tank a ton of mobs on them at once and never run out of mana...Let's be honest here! Chanters are OP as hell!
What made a monk a puller at first? FD and only FD and it wasn't even intended. They had no lull, charm, root, snare, mezz no run speed until years after the fact. Thats their role now but that was a design choice based off of FD and FD alone. They retroactively went back and added lulls to them years later but I think you don't realize this. What makes a ranger a puller? Rangers had harmonious arrow added in 2008. Otherwise much like necros they had lull, snare and root. Along with know how. Almost all their tools were animal only except root and snare for years but again this somehow doesn't register for you as you might have had rangers pull for you. Enchanters are pullers for sure. Lull, charm, mezz and a host of other tools all since inception. They have everything a bard has except they never got fade and selo's which again for quite awhile was outside use only. Warriors by default can dps but no that doesn't make them a dps class. Clerics can dps at times yes but no that doesn't make them a dps class. Necros by default did not just pull, thats what every other class can do no because pulling isnt needed with how mobs are setup these days. They used the pull tools they were provided lulls, charms, mezzes, snares, roots and fd and late on pull traps, fade and even more pet tools to split, single and control how many or which mobs came in with easy. If only bards and monks had kept their fades and had a higher level cap we wouldn't be having this discussion. However thats not what happened and all the secondary pulling classes except necros got to keep their toys. Necros are in this secondary group and should also have their fade treated the same. Somehow your entire opinion on this matter is based solely on your gameplay as you continue to ignore the facts of the matter no many how they are presented to you. Your entire argument keeps changing I show you this pull tool and you say well it doesn't count run speed is what matters. But if I say well shadow knights don't have run speed you will say well they have fade. If I say we had fade you will say its lulls that matter. If I say we have lulls you will say its mitigation tools that matter. If I linked all our short duration hit abilities or the host of pet tools we use so they get hit instead of us you will tell me its mez cap levels that define. If I say these 3 classes don't even have that you will once again tell me its their run speed abilities.
Pulling is a distinction made by the Devs, not really the tools they gave you 15 years ago when none of the current Devs were Devs then. The real Pullers have continuously gotten more and stronger pulling tools over the past like 10 years of the game and still have their spells/disc/AA limited slots eaten up by pulling upgrades and new tools. If Necromancers want to join the Pulling role (a role they've never considered to be in), they should give up like 1/2-1/3 of their DPS to be in the same DPS tier of Pullers, and give up new AA and Spell slots that could be DPS to do Pulling things instead. You can't be a pure top tier DPS and also a Puller.
Rogues are special, the only special one in the list, they get it as flavor being more of a scout, they also get Fade at the lowest level to help this flavor part of their class. Necroes also get FD on their Fade, which guarantees it to work better then like 13 classes Fade with no care of mob level limit.
Your bolded point is the main issue. We have always held this role since day 1 and now randomly someone who may or may not have thought it through or even realized is arbitrarily starting us down a path that could remove 16 years of ability. When every other class who shares these tools or only some of them was allowed to keep their fade. You mean like all those spells and aa we have gotten over the years? Everything we had at level 22 we continue to have now. We have gotten better and better fd leading to fade. We have gotten faster reuse and less resist issue lulls, charms and mezzes. Longer lasting and faster reuse snares and roots. Bigger and badder pet tools like runes, threshold buffs, etc all to pair with pet feign and swarm pets. We have traps that snare and fear. We have specialized FD that spawns a pet to simply take aggro and buy time for splitting and surviving. Why are people continuing to make up history based on their opinions or lack of knowledge? Look at our spells from level 1 until now. Look at our AA's. Every year we get something upgraded or added back. They have taken a portion of our allotment of spells and aa since 1999. This entire discussion is premised on having had a pull tool for 4-5 years that was taken away completely randomly based on nothing. People say its the classes whose lore allow them to escape, check thats us the first class to have fd which fade is based on. FD dropped aggro instantly at times when first in game if people want to start talking facts and not make up stuff based on what they know. People then say well its those classes who have been established as the pullers. Again check we have given up those spells slots and AA's for years by lulls, charms, mezzes, etc, etc, etc with constant versions and upgrades to have a secondary or tertiary ability to pull in a pinch. We aren't asking for something new. We are not claiming to be at the level of bards or monks. We are simply saying since 1999 we have pulled as well as rangers, shadow knights and rogues so our fade should be treated the same as theirs. This is based on spells from 1999. This is based on spells and aa we have continually gotten to present day. This is based on every other class that shares these tools in some form, some who only have a few, were allowed to keep their fade.
What is this DPS tier of Pullers? Is it the Monk DPS? or the Bard DPS? Also, should SKs give up 1/2 to 1/3 of their tanking to be in the same tanking tier of pullers?
Necros haven't 'held the puller role' since day 1. The -only- people designed to 'pull' since day one were those with no-limit Pacification abilities. That's it. FD pulling wasn't -designed- and indeed, was considered an exploit for a time, and was looked at being changed. Some classes got limited target-type (or location) Paci abilities, and thus yes, could pull in certain circumstances. But by your reasoning and logic, Pallies and Clerics, who have had full blown designed for pulling abilities -longer- ... deserve a better fade than necros. Mind you, I'm not going to argue that clerics should be treated as a pulling class. But if you want to bring up history, then be honest about it. There are plenty of reasons to have issues with things the devs do, but don't try to argue your point by misrepresenting history.
Day one was level 1-50 spells. So yes necros have held A puller role not THE puller role since day 1. Lull was not the only pulling tool in game it was just one of the most powerful and easiest to use. Fear was magical as was snare as was root as was charm as was mez as were pets all paired with fd. FD flopping in and of itself to split mobs via pathing, aggro drop or mobs returning to spawns at different times are the unintended tricks that were not considered. Fearing one mob while others came at you then fd'ing was. Snaring one mob while others ran at you then fd'ing was was. Rooting, mezzing, charming one mob....... well I hope you get the point regarding any mob. Sending in a suicide pet while aggroing another. Using low level pets and low aggro dots all worked to split anything single. Pulling was also often a two person job depending on the situation because no one class really had all these tools until later on except ...... necros. One pull tool does not a puller make I agree with you but a class with one pull tool got to keep their fade.
Cleric, pally, Bard, Enchanter pacification were broken I used them when pulling with my Cleric back then as a low agro pulling tool not because they worked but because they didn't work. Progression servers can never be classic unless they go and break lulls until the proper time when it was fixed. Only classes with FD were pullers. Ranger Druid harmony worked but were outdoor only spells. Necro's were the first class in game to receive FD and it cleared agro 100% of the time when used until mobs reached a into there mid 30s when it became more random.
What is "meant" for Necros is kind of irrelevant if abilities they've had for years are ripped away. I don't support any change that alters the core game play or abilities of a class to the point of frustration. Yes feedback should be civil and stick to the facts, but it's absolutely appropriate for there to be persistent negative feedback about these changes from those of us that find them intolerable. I do not speak as a bard there, yes I could learn to work around them. I'm talking about the mass frustration/annoyance introduced by messing with so many core class abilities. Many of these changes seem as if they are to spite people. "Oh, can't do that now, go back to the old way!" Ridiculous. (Edit: I am not saying the devs did it to spite people, but pulling the rug out from everyone's feet all because utilities are actually popular and used is ridiculous. Many of them were tools of convenience. Remove the convenience and you do not get challenge, you get annoyance and frustration.)
