Massive Ban Hammer Mega Discussion

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Dartmon65, Jul 1, 2022.

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  1. Dailor Augur

    Are you ok with DPG ignoring cheating?
  2. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    You seem to be okay with them ignoring cheating as you want them to let people off with a single punishment. Personally I leave it to Daybreak to decide how to handle the punishments.
  3. Branntick Augur

    They aren't ignoring cheating. The average person just doesn't understand how difficult/expensive it is to combat.

    EQ has no built-in cheat detection software with which to scan processes or otherwise ascertain hard evidence of completely client side cheating. They rely on player behavior to ban people, and pretty much always have.

    This stuff is always "hypothetically" detectable, but as of now it really isn't. Part of their motivation to migrate to the new 4games launcher is for the integrated anti-cheat, which may or may not stop all but the most determined.

    You can never completely eliminate cheating. That's something you're going to have to learn to accept. When I say "you", I mean the reader who is convinced that it is practical to eliminate all cheating.

    EQ is also a very old game with a smaller playerbase. Banning people is expensive. I'm actually impressed with Daybreak's ability to recognize that and instead punish people in a way that leads to lower recidivism.

    That said, that won't stop forum boomers from complaining that X player who does the same thing on every server is still out there doing his thing. Those individuals make a lot of money doing what they do, and they have a vested interest in continuing to do it. Nothing short of linking game accounts to your SSN is going to stop them from doing it.
  4. Dailor Augur

    Why do you keep dodging? Answer a question.

    I am not okay with them ignoring cheating. In my opinion if they truly want to curb cheating they need to implement strict anti cheat and nuke anyone that has been caught with it on their system.

    If you don't stamp out cheating to the point that there is no glimmer of hope to do it, people are going to continue to cheat, even if they are caught. This goes back to what FrankTheBank was talking about that you argued against. At some point you are going to realize that you don't like cheating, but you don't actually want DPG to do anything proper about it. I can empathize with that, because for all of it's flaws, I like Everquest. I worry that stamping out a 10+ year culture of doing the bare minimum to curb cheating and changing to full nuclear is enough of a shock to turn enough of the player base away to kill it.

    You can't even agree to your own scenario (LOGIC) that someone cheating 5 times a week, 20+ times a month should be banned.

    Why are you even arguing with anyone in this thread at this point?
    Stymie likes this.
  5. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    I am not dodging but stating what I have been the entire time, it is up to Daybreak to determine what should be done in the case of someone who is discovered to be cheating over a period of time. It could be a single punishment or it could be multiple punishments. My only issue is that some seem to think that it is better to punish a single time in a flawed view that it will get people to stop cheating. My opinion that just leads people to keep cheating until they get caught instead of stopping (or not cheating at all) in order to minimize the punishment.

    If you want to stamp out cheating being lenient on someone because they claim to have stopped isn't the way to go. In the case we seem to be going back and forth on Daybreak appears to be going with the multiple punishments route.
  6. Dailor Augur

    If you want to stamp out cheating being lenient on someone because they claim to have stopped isn't the way to go.
    We have found common ground. Incredible.

    Ok... let's try this one more time. Again, I am using YOUR logic in this scenario.

    Let's lie, and say you Waring_Mcmarrin used for 3 sessions spanning from June 1st to June 5th. DPG picks up all 3 sessions and determines you will be punished in the July wave for sesson 1. (Note this information is solely held by DPG. You will be told you were suspended for "cheating") Based on this suspension you can infer that it had to be from use the month before. You rightly decide to never use again because being suspended sucked.
    August = No issue.
    September = No issue.
    October = You are suspended 14 days for CHEATING (session 3 but you don't know that. Where did session 2 go? They decided to be lenient with that one.)

    This is terribly confusing to you, because you stopped using FOUR MONTHS AGO. You might even be upset... angry.

    You have an evil thought, if I am being punished for it anyway, why wouldn't I use it...

    I'll be honest I don't have the answers either. I do believe first time bans will curb the use from people that want to truly reform. They will come back on a new account and be clean. However, the people that want to eat bans and create new characters to cheat more will be just as present, but slightly more annoyed. I'd rather see users banned over and over than see them conned into thinking it's feasible to use because a 7-14 day suspension every few months is just the cost of doing business.
  7. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    Are you really trying to justify people cheating as much as they want and getting a clean record because they have been punished a single time? I have never been trying to suggest what the punishment should be, just that it is up to Daybreak to decide if someone should be punished multiple times or not. Judging by the complaints in this thread that is what they seem to be doing. My complaint is with people insisting that a single punishment should cover all acts when that is for Daybreak to decide.
  8. Dailor Augur

    No, once again you have lost the plot. I can propose outright banning a cheater in the text that you are quoting, and you will still come back with "ArE yOu TrYiNg To JuStIfY cHeAtInG?!" You might be THEE most difficult person to have a conversation with on this platform because you beat people into submission with the daunting task of getting you to actually say anything of substance.

    The process is broken, your brain is broken, my spirit is broken.
  9. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    What are you trying to argue with me then? This all started because I opposed the idea/complaint that a single punishment should cover every instance of a player cheating up to the point of the punishment. I have never stated what I thought the punishment should or shouldn't be. Just that if Daybreak feels the need to punish people multiple times for cheating over a period of time that there is nothing wrong with it. I am opposed to the idea that people should get punished once and the rest written off because it will encourage them to stop.

    If Daybreak wants to suspend people for cheating that doesn't bother me, if they want to ban people for cheating that also doesn't bother me. In the end we should not be making statements that they are limited to a single time for punishment and let them handle those decisions as they see fit.
  10. Janakin Augur

    Since when does any server allow restricted 3rd party software?
  11. oldkracow 9999 Is the Krono Account Limit

    We know they are afraid to ban players in any heavy handed way that's why it's mainly suspensions no matter how terrible the cheating is unless it's that 1% ban for the guy that's been cheating for so long they need to put a stop to it after (x) time.

    Then come the forum folks who claim they stopped cheating (x) months ago and they shouldn't be punished for something in the past. It's quite a joke that's why you get a high amount of people who'll cheat because the effort and reward far outweigh any of the joke punishments.

    I'm real curious how long one needs to cheat in broad day light in order to even get a ban. I mean way back when our test dummy account was fully automated for trading and even with friends sending in reports only resulted in a suspension and that took almost a month.

    At that point it's like why stop cheating if you can gain (x) and lose next to nothing.
  12. Janakin Augur

    Guy could have been using I S B and sent keystroke to all his chars to stand and then follow. /sit down and /stand up commands are a little quirky. I think I send /sit down - /pause 6 - /stand up - /pause 6 and then /target Janakin and then /follow. You can put a /pause on same line as a command but the pause is run after the command on the line.
  13. Beimeith Lord of the Game

    Never, but some people persistently believe that Rizlona allows it despite it literally never being allowed there. Rizlona was/is a TLP without Truebox, nothing more.
    Stymie likes this.
  14. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    Chase loot (Blood-Soaked, Ice Encrusted, Descending Moon items) drop in new expansions. These items can sell for several Krono (with the latest pet EM earring selling for 25-40 Krono). TS items and spell runes remain highly coveted with some /barters paying 1-10k per item. You even said you prefer to go to Underfoot to farm platinum.

    You know exactly what you are saying and doing here.

    Again, please show me the innocent, morally upstanding botter who destroys platinum and loot out of respect for fair play.
  15. Iconfusedagain New Member

    Personally I believe they only do suspensions because if they dropped the ban hammer on all the people cheating they would lose so many accounts and players that the population of TLP servers would be a fraction of what they are when booted up. I personally don't understand why people hate 6 boxers unless it's those that just perma camp things. Even then with instances and so many picks people still have it so much better now than "the glory days" of Everquest.

    Also, what exactly are people "gaining" over others (I'm guessing krono that should be on their account not a boxer)? The game is so old and it's not like this is the old school TLP's where it's first there wins loot. There's no more blocking people from doing something, and you get a free raid instance once a week. This is perfectly acceptable for people playing WoW, but because this is Everquest people bring more drama and cry over things. I guess people want their own zone to play at their own pace, and only they are disturbed by their own play. Can your characters defeat the might Frenzied Ghoul? To be continued...
  16. MacDubh TABLES!!!

    You must be mistaken, I have only been to Underfoot to get my traveler achievements. I don't farm platinum, I buy Krono and sell it to the highest bidder.
  17. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    The debate is over botting (automated play) and not boxing (whether that involves truebox or I S B).

    Automation allows players to leave their computer while their characters continue to kill mobs (to farm platinum or loot).

    Pro-cheaters try to make the case that you can automate at the keyboard. However, it would still violate the rules for the following:

    • Unverifiable behavior.
    • The player is granted an advantage by not being fatigued by gameplay.
    • Player is able to extend playtime sessions to monopolize camps or mobs.
    strongbus likes this.
  18. Iconfusedagain New Member

    So your reasons here are because someone either gets an item first or collects more krono. The agony of it! Maybe they max their AA's before you, in the end how does it affect the majority of people? I know! The people who want to krono farm on their own get affected, and the super casuals get a lower price due to supply/demand. Sounds like it actually affects very few people while helping others. I find auto crews just as annoying as others, but it doesn't ruin the experience because there are tons of other things you can do. Sorry, no E-boots for you today, perhaps tomorrow or do another quest and trade for them.

    Little naive aren't we to think people controlling a crew don't have something other than IS Boxer running, yeah?
  19. MileyVyrus Elder

    These forums are crosswalk buttons.

    When you are angry or lfg or sad or whatever , you come here and hit the button.

    Thats what these forums are for.

    So keep up the good work. Scream your fool heads off in here, think thats what changes the light.

    And curse at everyone driving cars..

    Bless your hearts.
    Stymie and Metanis like this.
  20. Timmyboi Dunning Kruger Award Winner

    As long as people aren't having fun the wrong way, I'm happy.
    FranktheBank, code-zero and MacDubh like this.
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