Making Progression Not Required On Release Then REQUIRING It?

You can totally try doing RoS progression without EoK progression. There are no set prerequisites for doing RoS progression outside the expansion. You can probably get through a fair portion of it, too, but will eventually have to kill Kar`Zok or be near them, and need a way to deal with their aura when you get to Gorowyn or enter some of the missions.

This misconception that "omg! I need EoK 100% complete to touch RoS!" is ridiculous. I did a good portion of RoS progression on a group-geared warrior who never touched EoK prog because I'm lazy AF with my alts.

I even killed some Kar`Zok by blitzing in on full burn and screaming a Conan inspired battle chant IRL. You can do it, too. There is nothing stopping you.

I bet that we both can agree that RoS shouldn't be free just because it continues where EoK left off however.

I get the feeling we are both reasonable people and understand this. Don't prove me wrong!

And what if, say, you weren't playing this game for a year or two or three for some reason.
Would you still find it reasonable to HAVE TO do the content you missed, in order, before you join your old friends where they're then?
Or would you instead perhaps rather think to yourself "oh.. now i have missed so much, old friends have moved on too so i better find something else to spend my time on and new friends"?
I'd actually like to see you "lol" the issue off then too! But i'm afraid you wouldn't.

I know it, and that's why I was working for Tears of Alaris and Artisan's Prize, instead of RoK progression. However, if DBG can provide more contents for players who can play for 30 minutes, DBG can get more money from them. If DBG get more money from casuals, casuals AND raiding players will get more contents in the future and everyone will be happier. Restricting current progression is quite opposite and it will make nobody happy.

I think RoS offers enough content to be worth the price, so no arguing there.

But it isn't restricted, you are restricted. I am restricted. Anyone that doesn't have time to do everything in the game is restricted. The game isn't. It is this way for any kind of endeavor.

I like to play golf. I used to play about 3 times a week and practice on top of that. I got down to about a 9 or 10 handicap. I haven't played a round of golf in a very long time. I don't have the time it takes to play that well anymore. I am restricted, not the game of golf. If I had the time, I could get back to that level of play. I am not asking for a round of golf to be only 9 holes or anything because I don't have the time to play full rounds or the time to achieve the level of play I used to play at.

I am not writing the U.S.G.A and telling them, they need to change the game because I can't spend the time on it I used to.

You will likely be able to do as much in RoS what you did in EoK...some but not all of it. It won't be because the game doesn't allow you to complete it. It will be because you can't or won't devote the time to complete it. Make sense?

It is very interesting. Do we need 6 RoS group geared players without EotD1 to beat Skyfire mission, or is it possible with 3 group geared players and 3 mercs without EotD1? Is it possible to get VP access for 3 players without EotD1, or need 6 real players?

Hit like button by mistake. Mean to hit "Reply".

LOL!!!!

How is EQ responsible for that? If that was me, I would likely do the content if I really valued playing with my old friends in the game. If I didn't have the time, then I guess I would make friends with people I could play with and just socialize with the old friends via chat. Maybe my old friends will help me advance if they are my friends and value my friendship, knowing I need help.

Everyone has had to leave friends behind whether in a game or in real life. It happens. There is no government or society or game that is responsible for any of that. That responsibility is on you, the individual.

But you do
You say EQ is not a "casual game". i say it's - at it's core - VERY casual: it's a chat-room, damn it, with swords.
You say "It takes time and determination to be successful". i say that wholly depends how you define "success".

Yes, EQ has always been a rather time-intensive game.
It takes time to log on, gather up, move and actually start anything. Then it takes more time to get anything done.
But i have always been able to log on at my leisure and go wherever i wanted...

You speak of "the same rewards" - and in THAT i have to agree.
But this thread isn't about rewards, it's about accessibility. So that comment is nothing but a derail, sadly.

hmm...
I'd say NO - you're ok with that because that's how you justify it for yourself.
Following your logic, nothing stops you from anything of the above - you just have to make the choice of how to spend your online time.
Like the people did that "still don't have progression done".
Only your choice is different to theirs, and because of that you're telling them to "get it" and sod off.
WTF?

And this is the disqualifying statement in my eyes.
Telling people to sod off and play something else, really?
Are we - do we REALLY want to be - this non-inclusive? In what's at its core a SOCIAL game?

I was starting this with a bit of humor by stating that you sound like "the bad guy".
Because the post started off well enough. As i read on though, and am putting this answer together, i feel the rage building at just what you wrote when i think about the consequences of this attitude.
I don't like it :/

Good thing then that you can just click the same area again to unlike... *rolls eyes*

As for the rest of your reply:
"how is EQ responsible for that" - for what?
The break/absence itself? not at all ofc.
The "have to do, in order"? Very much, exclusively even - at least that's the potential effect i'm afraid of as i said in that post.

Yes everyone has to leave friends behind and find new ones.
But i hope we agree in that this game does LIVE off the "old timers" - those that are still playing and those that are, like me, playing again. I fail to see how ANYTHING that (even just potentially, as with beta still going on we can't actually KNOW yet) forces you to do things "in order" (i.e. railroading, to use a pragmatic term) is good or can be "lol'd" at.

Inga has brought this up numerous times.

Nice to know that you consider some of the reject slackers...wonder how they would feel about you feeling like that about them.

Being in any guild that is willing to get it done helps in "getting it done." If your guild doesn't have the numbers or desire to, then seek out others, build alliances, etc. Point is, don't throw your hands up and give up. There is ALWAYS a way.

See above.

Yes, I am in a favorable position to be in the guild that I am in. We also do help non-guildies with stuff, and do events on the server for non-guildies. So, no, we don't sit on a pedestal on high and swat away non-guildies. We reach out to them and help them out as well. We are a guild, but we belong to the server as a whole...that is our community, our home, and we work on being good neighbors.

Hasn't been a problem for me. Again, strong guild, working together, working to improve ourselves as a whole. In fact, I am currently running through with a group in TDS content right now working on heroic AAs. And the people I am running it through just did the zone I needed a few nights before, and they still came back and helped me out with getting through that zone.[/quote]

Ever consider that perhaps someone did help them out, and perhaps communicated through tells? When I see a call for assistance in GenChat, and I am able to help, I don't reply in GenChat...I reply in tells. So, what you don't see happening may in fact be happening.

I can't speak for every guild and every server...I only know what goes on in mine and on my home server. But, from what I can see, we operate far differently than other guilds and servers. Other than our resident preacher who wages a crusade in GenChat against botting and boxing, things are pretty quiet on Vox. We don't complain about much, and get done what needs to be done.

I would find it reasonable. It is no different than coming back and having to level your toon up to join your friends that are already max level and have done content. You just do the prerequisites along the way.

You know what? you're right.
Until "it" puts restrictions in place above/in addition to yours.

But that aside: do you really not see what you're doing here as one of two or three?
You're changing the subject!

Ok, so you do not "need" EoK progression to set a foot into RoS.
Ok, so you can kill a single Kar'Zok even without Essence1, especially if repop time gives you time to med back to full after each single kill - some classes suffer less than others (and repop is not long enough to get back, i tried - and you go ahead and try that with multiples, especially when your're not the only one without essence).
All of that is true and still quite beside the actual point.

Because the actual point is that progression of one expansion is required in another, no matter for how much of that expansion's content. You NEED it, if only "eventually".
You didn't need that for VT or any other locked zone, you only needed the progression/key for that zone from THAT expansion.

To build on your golfing example, that would be as if your glofclub would build a wall to the parking lot and forget the doors to make you climb over first in order to play golf. Then you need to pass through a tennis court and play a match of tennis before you eventually reach the clubhouse. Your golf-bag is too heavy, you're not tall or strong enough to get over that 3m wall? Too bad - we're not restricting you, you're restricting yourself. *points to the Navy Seal who does it in full gear*
But all the while, you have paid your green-fee and carried your golfclubs, because you came to play golf, not tennis or do a parcour.

meh...
tells me a lot about your reading comprehension.
No he hasn't.
But just to make sure, i actually glanced over all his posts listed in his profiles' posting history on the first page - here's the gist of it:

*shrug* People know exactly what i think about them.
And yes, some apps are simply "slack" but that's of course not the only reason to be rejected.

Beside the point, as pointed out in my reply above already.
This isn't, as i see it, about how close your server is or how helpful your guild is, even to outsiders.
I tip my hat if you do what you say - commendable.

But the core of the discussion, at least the one i am having here, is if it's a good thing to bring one expansion's progression over to another.
This is, as was pointed out, a first. There are reasons for it, but no precedence.
It COULD be - and that's what i'm afraid of - the beginning of a trend, because the excuses some people give for this approach (make content last longer and such ) don't go away. On the contrary, they stand to become even more prevalent as time goes on.

How long is this river of tears going to be? With the effort some of you have put into these multiple threads you could already have the progression in question started if not finished.

And to stick to the "point" I hope this model continues from now on. You don't absolutely have to have prior progression to do new things. But it rewards the players that do. I'm all for it.

Like it or not, RoS is a new expansion and advertised by DBG as such. This is fact and cannot be argued.

You don't have to have... your epic, your various port/gate clicks, your rez stick, prior expansion bp's for clock effects. Etc. Etc. Etc. But if you do......profit. This having to go back and do old content to get a better experience in a new expansion does seem to be a years old trend.

Even if we have completed it long ago, we can still complain about design-choices...Im actually more concerned about potential returnees/newbies that might start playing when EoK is desolated. "Catching up time" is one of the things that might hold returnees/newbies back from trying the game...

You care again?