With the amazing changes to LoH and making it hit the mobs target when the Pally is not targeting a player but a mob. I think it’s time all direct heals from Paladins do this. So if I am whacking a live mob doing amazing Pally dps and cast a direct heal it will target whom ever that mob is targeting, This would be AMAZING and make Paladins even better than they are now which is pretty darn awesome. Thanks, Paladin 109 Paladin FV
The one that needs emergency pally heals for example is not always the current player that the mob has targetted. Would reduce greatly flexibility imo.
Which would still require them to have to target that player then. The same as they do now. With the way the OP mentioned, if the person the mob has on target is the person in need of healing, it would make one less step. Maybe I am missing your point as I don't understand why this would be annoying.
If the heal is now coded to work only on your target's target like the OP mentionned. You cannot have the same heal that is double coded : working old way and working new way target's target.
If Passthrough heals are what you really enjoy maybe sell why they should receive a boost in power. As it is we have so many heals for almost any situation, its a matter of knowing the content and then what heals to load for the best results. We are already a group heal, splash and cure bot on raids as it is. To be honest Paladin are not even needed in any RoS raid, they could be replaced with other classes.
Ahh ok. He said that it hits the targets target when a player is not the target. Implying that if a PC is targeted it will heal like normal, but when an NPC is targeted it would heal the NPC's target. Not sure how it works, but I get what you are saying now.
Not how that works. It’s not ‘’double coding’’, it’s setting the heal to target of target if used on an ‘’unfriendly’’ NPC
I just think it would be cool if they worked like LoH work now. To Warpeace’s point if this change to our direct heal spells was made I would not need better ToT heals. All the ToT spells also do other things so I understand why they are balanced the way they are. Heals are one thing..... heals.
No thank you. LoH is a special aa that has a long reuse timer. Making the change makes sense given other changes in the game. I know I have moved it back into my rotation since I know it will work when solo instead of Gift of Life (yeah, I know...I'm a really lazy Paladin solo). Changing the fundamental way healing spells work is a massive undertaking. Clerics, druids, shamans are all going to want the same consideration (especially druids and shamans). There's also the possible unbalancing of allowing htot for the under level 80 crowd (I think that's about when we start to see real htot spells for classes). We may need more "easy" healing while fighting mobs and I would support looking into to this. I'd rather raise the heals from our current group/self only heals than mess with what is a fundamental aspect of the game IMO.
I don't think you can get the best of both worlds in all situations. Aside the reasoning of Goodn about other healer class wanting the same thing (and would be legitimate because they are more "pure" healers than paladins), this would be imo overpowered when the paladin is the current MT of the mob. It would be working like SK lifetaps (to land their lifetap SK have to target the mob, so equal to paladin that can land their heal by targetting the mob too). The biggest difference is that paladin active healing on demand high heal numbers is doing better than SK passive healing relying on lifetap crits, which is a nice advantage on high hitters mobs like raids mobs.
I'm not in favor of this idea as it fundamentally dumbs down paladin play. One of the key traits of a good paladin is situational awareness and doing the "right thing" in a given moment. This idea would remove that skill from the player and the habits learned would fade away. Paladins already have ToT healing spells and I would guess that most paladins use at least two of the three all the time. Group healing covers the other use cases. I doubt paladins would memorize Touch or Light heals because of this proposal (I wouldn't) and so we're only talking about Burst heals benefitting. At best Merciful Light might replace Protective Devotion in your spell set. So really paladin already has the tools. The idea is also unnecessary as it can be achieved with a macro. Same for LoH. I don't mind the change to LoH targeting due to the long cool down and potential to waste the ability (long time sore spot for many). Do I hate wasting mana on a mistargeted heal sans macro? Sure, but not enough for this idea. I'd rather have the Devs change Protective vie to not overwrite cleric vie (its main detraction) then have this idea implemented. The change to GoL is the real win on this topic from the last patch (thanks).
You’re assuming I would find this best of both worlds. I merely corrected you on it not being a “double coding” statement. Regarding would this be an “overpowered” thing or not, I don’t really care to get into that deeply. It would definitely be lowering the skill curve of the Paladin class IMO as Wulf basically stated and that I do care about. I can think of a hundred things I’d rather see implemented to improve Paladins versus simplifying targeted heals =p. Maybe something of this nature could be done with pure heal over time line of spells, even then they would need additional boosts to ever be memed though
I don't think this is the way they'd want to go with all heals for any class. Lay on Hands being a long reuse AA is fine. Every heal in general isn't going to happen though. We have group heals, aurora heals, etc... for handling some of that. We have ways to grab aggro when needed. Honestly, this is an odd request to fix a problem that we don't have. If there's one mob on ETW and someone takes aggro and is getting hit, then take the aggro back or heal that player. If there is more than one mob on ETW, then it's easier to click on the player to cast direct heals on them than click on each mob to figure out which one is hitting that player but again, take the aggro back via beacon or lodestar. There are a few ways that I think our heals need / could be improved: 1.) Faster cast times for our group heals (both the wave and aurora heals) 2.) Find some way to make the heal over time spells more worthwhile 3.) Fix the overwriting of Cleric vie by Protective line of spells 4.) Add in a line of stuns that provides a heal on target's target - essentially a copy of the Admonish line of spells that has a stun instead of the nuke. Could also look at it as a target's target version of our Dichotomic stun instead of the group heal. It would probably need to share a timer with something like the Lesson line of spells to avoid making stun tanking even more trivial than it already is. What in the world are you talking about? 1.) Paladins already have heal on target's target spells that work "like SK lifetaps" while we're tanking mobs - raid boss mobs or not. I'm not sure you have a basic understanding of our spells or how they work. 2.) Why in the world would anyone worry about Paladin active healing doing more than SK passive healing? Which class is the Warrior - Cleric hybrid and which one is the Warrior - Necro hybrid again? Your whole premise makes no sense. I also highly doubt that SKs actually rely on lifetap crits to tank raid mobs - bosses or trash. Not saying it doesn't help, but I think you've confused the benefit of SKs using their epic with everything else they do to tank mobs.
The quick and dirty fix to the cleric overwrite would be something like this Up the protective vie on the refute for honor line to match the vie on our tott (why do we have a short duration vie on 2 different spells when the refute line does nothing if a cleric has cast on us (including mercs) Then remove the vie from protective spell line and replace it with a rune 1 this brings back the divine favor spell line 2 eliminates the overwrite of the cleric version 3 removes redundancy 4 incentivizes casting the refute line (has always been inferior to the ac that sk gain by casting theirs due entirely to the best vie always taking precedence) Win/win
They changed the Vie component on our Refute line quite awhile back. It’s now a threshold rune, which stacks good for us currently as we lack a substantial threshold rune ability like SK/WAR possess
If you fail to understand that against hard hitter mobs, paladin self healing is more powerful than SK self healing (heal on demand without restriction > passive healing lifetap that aren't enough to compensate for hard hits of the mobs), I can do nothing for you really.
Shadow Knights have active lifetaps in addition to their passive lifetap tools. They also gain the benefits of "double-dipping" on foci returns, gaining both damage + healing on each lifetap. I'm not going spell diving to compare the two, it's entirely possible that active Paladin active healing is indeed better than SK active healing, but trying to compare Paladin active healing vs SK passive healing makes absolutely 0 sense. You're ignoring half of the healing toolkit of the SK for ... reasons? And more to the point: Why do you feel the need to jump into every Paladin suggestion thread and immediately start spouting your views on balance at everyone? All it does is bog down the thread. You're not helping anyone (including yourself) by acting this way.
Just so there is no confusion, They added a brand new target type for the change to LoH. it targets your target if your target is unfriendly, otherwise it hits your target.
Don't matter that it's active or passive lifetap. The lifetaps heal less than paladin direct heals, which will negate less well hard hits of raids mobs. Also I don't mind that it does this atm. I just say that if you don't have to target yourself anymore to cast these more powerful direct heals on you, you get a larger advantage in this domain. That's just what I'm saying. Playing a tank class myself, I'm interested by class balance between the tank classes. I have nothing against paladins. It just happens that the only threads asking new stuff are made by paladins atm. When I see something proposed that could be overpowered in term of class balance between tank classes, I just express my opinion about it.You are completely free to disagree with this opinion, but doing personal attack to provoke others is just leading to thread with people answering at each other.
It’s not opinion when you come on another classes topic and say something can’t be done because developers can’t “double code” it. That’s making complete inaccurate statements. It’s also not opinion when you learn otherwise, you start making completely false claims related to two classes you don’t play and are obviously extremely unknowledgable about. Numbers aren’t opinion
