Machine Wars 2019 (Mangler)

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Malj1nn, Apr 28, 2019.

  1. Elemenopi Augur


    From a player standpoint, I agree, as I prefer game system integrity. I just understand what they are doing, and why. I certainly dont agree with it however...

    The reason they do it is because they are protecting their big spenders. They arent willing to police and arbitrate every KS dispute between a 1 sub holder and another 1 sub holder, but the minute a 1 sub holder trains a 12 sub holder, they will step right in. Their verbiage is such that they believe these are two separate types of disputes (training -vs- first engage) but this is incorrect, the disputes are about the same thing, KSing.

    The way their rules are set up now is they fully expect once the 1 sub holder sees they dont have a chance to outDPS the 12 sub holder after they pick in and sit on the spawn point like they are hatching an egg, that the 1 sub holder will simply be satisfied with this and slink away to hold some lesser camp, and the 1 sub holder needs to be satisfied each time this happens until they are pushed out of the zone. Picking over doesnt help, as the 12 sub holder can just pick over as well, just as often as anyone else can.

    Like I said before, this is not the EQ I remember, or the Nostalgia I came back for. :p

    Its more like the post apocalyptic version of EQ where might makes right (where "might" is measured in RL dollars and has nothing to do with the game system itself, and "right" means the choice that earns the company the most money).

    Wallet Warrioooooors, come on out and plaaay-yaaayyyy
  2. Elemenopi Augur


    Yeah I agree. They have had plenty of time and even the most blatantly obvious of offenders is still sitting camps 24/7.
  3. yerm Augur

    This isnt about sub quantity. They suspend for training. It is degenerate behavior that is probably easy to enforce with no downside for punishing it. They catch a deliberate train = they suspend. It's not some conspiracy to defend box armies.
    Elyani and code-zero like this.
  4. code-zero Augur

    I see "enable PvP or let us train" come up fairly regularly and neither of those are happening.

    Your two real options are to petition coherently with details or to gather up a raid and DPS race the offending crews. One is easily doable by anyone and with some patience you'll see results IF the accused are actually playing with bots. The other would require some organization and teamwork....
  5. That0neguy Augur


    Says the guy who blatantly disregarded the rules and then got suspended for it. Well played sir, well played.
    Elyani and code-zero like this.
  6. Selo_slinky New Member

    Selo isn't much better, it's just a smaller server than Mangler with more camps and people spread out. The problems exist just you may not run into them as much as Mangler. Ran around sebilis today between spore king and hierophant camp and seen enchanters and wizards with randomly generated names flitting between the two camps. Petitioned them and the GMs sent ME a tell asking if I was around, lol.

    DBG's GM policy is to simply send a person a tell and if they respond that's enough. So morale of the story, botting is A okay just be sure to set up an audio trigger to let you know when you get a tell from a GM so you can reply and be on your merry botting way.
  7. Elemenopi Augur


    Thats the narrative anyway.

    The results speak a different story. Kill stealing **used to be** regarded as the same level degenerate behavior which was just as easy to enforce with no downside for doing so. Until settling disputes between players resulted in bot farmers taking their business to free server land got in the way of making money. Cant have that single sub player having any real claim on a spawn the 12 sub player should be monopolizing - which results in other players who remain blissfully oblivious buying Krono to purchase the resulting loot.
  8. That0neguy Augur

    Yep, hiring 20 people to constantly patrol for KSing was def easy and had no downside....
  9. a_librarian Augur

    yeah I popped into seb crypt once and saw it was completely clear, including emp but could not find a single person anywhere on that floor. I did see a huge clump of characters all sitting next to spore king though who apparently were keeping both floors clear.
  10. barrth New Member

    Man these posts make me laugh so much. For those that dont want to read it all its /cry someone farming cash camp with boxs and I cant farm them for myself. /Cry more I got banned for training it isnt fair I should be able to break rules.
    on Side note thanks for giving me things to read when i got bored carry on
    PaulKing likes this.
  11. Brunlin Augur

    You must be new, The 3 IG s in Everfrost is the best cash camp in classic. Its also probably the most competitive camp as well. If you have all 3 for a day you can easily make 10kish, though currently having all 3 is almost impossible as it is now very well known and sought after. I would rather have all 3 giants than be at Efreeti s camp.
  12. trevock Augur


    It's more like "KS'ing is fine as long as we can push back".

    Not everyone wants to run 3rd party programs and have 10 boxes. Not everyone has a "raid type" force to bring with them along everywhere to "dps race".

    The entire counter argument to defend it is absolutely stupid.

    Basically if i don't box 10 mages or have a raid-type force in my back pocket, I need to /stop crying.

    That about sum it up?
  13. Elemenopi Augur


    More like laying those people off had the downside of no longer having the resources to manage the rule as written, so they changed the rule as written to pass the buck on the downside to the customer with the least amount of subscriptions.

    You want something valuable? Either pay more money for more subs so your box army can outDPS the other guys box army, or buy Krono to pay the guy with the box army for the item you want. Attempts to play the game to get the item you want will result in being pushed off the camp by someone with more subs, therefore a larger box army.

    Wallet Warrioooooors, cooooome on ouuuut and plaaaay-yaaaaay!

    [IMG]
  14. yerm Augur

    When downsides to enforcing rules on ksing were discovered the rule was dropped. These included using throw stone to ping a contested raid mob and needing to check a parse to see who was first, damaging and then kiting a mob waiting for a force to arrive, and damaging mobs being positioned for a quad kill before they were snared and stacked. These are just the instances I personally saw - I know many many many people complained about first to engage rules, and they WERE abused.

    Likewise for camps. People refusing to leave, or people handing spots to guildmates to lock it down, or a buddy getting petitioned out of an epic camp after 24th hour because of zone monopoly, etc. My favorite was CT being camped a full spawn cycle immediately from tl's kill onward, I know I've posted that here a dozen times.

    If you can show that banning people for deliberate trains can and does cause harm, like how camp and ks enforcement were shown to, maybe they will allow it. Until then they will enforce it and good on them for doing so.

    Botting appears to be much harder to catch or prove. So be extra diligent in the petitioning, instead of breaking one rule to punish another...
    code-zero likes this.
  15. Elemenopi Augur


    Its not a question of causes harm vs not causes harm. The guide post a few days ago literally admitted the rule was dropped due to no longer having the resources to enforce it.

    As for botting and petitioning, the same few folks who are obviously afk farming 24/7 still exist on the server with the same characters. Its not going away any time soon.

    While the company line narrative sounds more like what you are saying, those of us capable of objectively reading between the lines understand the reality here.
  16. Malj1nn New Member


    Yes I do see the irony in this, however I feel you're missing the point. I hope you can read my original post and see that I'm approaching this with humor.

    I am not upset at being suspended nor do I feel I've been wronged by DBG. I won't be training because I'd rather not lose my account forever. It's a shame to see that the only way to counteract this type of play would be for me to break the rules by multiboxing on one PC and it's not worth the time or effort. At the end of the day this guy farming krono doesn't affect me.

    I am glad that some discussion could take place in this thread and I look forward to further opinions and insights.
  17. yerm Augur

    If memory serves its about 25ish/hour and prenerf giant plat around 35 on avg and with cash drops that I will say makes them 50p/kill on average. Feel free to correct my math. This is 1250 an hour. This is difficult to match solo anywhere else, for sure, but simple for multiple characters.

    Or to put it another way, in rm clearing all the phs around you (easily done with just a couple pets let alone a full 6 or more box army) you will easily see several hgs per minute, which means more than a dozen (imo 20+ realistically) per ig (x3) spawn. So even if my math is wrong, you would need to argue that one ig returns more loot than 4+ hgs.
  18. Moranis Augur


    As others have said, these are some of the best krono camps in the early game. With their Hill Giant-esque plat drops, plus fine steels, you can average about 26pp/kill. With 3 spawns, at 6-min pop timers, that adds up to somewhere around 700pp/hour. Hold those camps down for 16+hours, as is currently being done, and you get 11-15k PER DAY. I wouldn't be surprised if that number actually was 24 hours - I haven't seen him NOT there in about 3 weeks...he must be sponsored by Brawndo.

    Just a couple weeks ago when kronos were 2k/ea on Manger, that means he makes 5-7 kronos per day to fuel his 15 or so person box army. In one month, I would wager he made 150-200 kronos and only burned 15 of them on his accounts. Take the other kronos, at $10-$11 a piece on RMT auction sites, dude just pocketed a cool $1500.

    It's no wonder he threatens you with "wipes" or "trains" in the future when he actually IS at the computer watching you out DPS his mage pets - dude is making serious bank while "watching netflix and pressing buttons".
  19. oldkracow Augur

    I hope he's from a country where $1,500.00 is considered a living wage for a month for all those hours on-line even semi-afk
  20. Elyani Augur

    Funny you should say this. Considering a lot of the anti-box retorhic is "Play how I want you to play". I am not saying you have said this, but it seems a lot of this flies around constantly. Let me ask you a question... if it wasn't a boxed "army" camping the spot, would you still want to train them to make them leave, or would you move on? Seriously. Someone has the camp. You want the camp. Do you want the ability to train them no matter who it is? Or do you just want to train them because they are boxed?

    In the end, if we allow people to train each other because they are a "box army" at a camp we want, we open the flood gates for allowing anyone to train anyone anytime they are at a camp we want. Do you want this? I don't train people, but I might consider doing so if it was an acceptable/legal practice to get the camp I want. ;) Do you really wanna go down this rabbit hole?

    You can punch back. You just can't shoot to kill. But what you're asking to be able to do is to shoot someone because they can hit harder than you can. In real life, if you bring a gun to a street fight and just shoot and kill the other person because you can't beat them in a fist fight, you're the one that ends up in prison with a life sentence, not the other guy. ;)

    Sadly, people from other countries, specifically China, that do this sort of work don't earn even a quarter of what they make from farming. In WoW I had befriended a group of Gold Farmers and really got to know them. Not to say I approve of what they do in-games on any level, but I truly feel terrible for them. They work 9-12 hours a day, and while they make their U.S. based master thousands of dollars a day, they only make pocket change and still live in poverty. They are forced/trained to use programs, much of the time, and taught/told to get the money/items at any cost. If they get banned, they PL themselves back up using other accounts and it doesn't take any money away from the operation at all. In other games, when offering PL sessions for money, often, they will steal these accounts in the future to use these characters to farm money too. When people hand over an account, they take down all of the information (character names, home address, real names, last digits of the credit cards) to gain access to the account in the future through the petition systems.

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