Lockjaw Rotation Updated - 8/15/15

I would argue most are 30ish. If you were a teen when eq came out, you'd be right around 30ish.

still pretty pathetic...

I'm not even sure what you're implying is pathetic. There's like 100 different topics in this thread.

Maybe I'm just not in touch but everything I've read here has been you lessening FFA on the server. Could you better explain this statement?

Maybe we should get a few things straight -

1. No one in Faceless asked for MM to be banned. So let's just dispel that rumor right here. Yes Darth made a comment about wanting to see if DBG would actually uphold enforcement. That doesn't mean we wanted the entire guild suspended. So get over it.

2. Three petitions were sent in by three different people asking for a Guide to come check out the person tagged as MM killing mobs in Sky which was "against the rotation" after a message was sent to Dima and he did not respond (because he was online but AFK or on a trip or something). Our bad for not knowing you weren't actually at your computer.

3. A Sr. Guide responded within an hour of those three petitions being sent (Jesus, talk about fast response times - if only server outages were fixed so fast!), assuming that we had attempted to work out our differences and made the call to mass suspend MM without the consent of Roshen or other Sr. CSR staff.

4. Holly / Roshen found out, reviewed the petitions and follow up petitions that FI had submitted AFTER we found out that MM had been suspended asking for DBG to review the suspension. We just wanted the guy to be moved out of Sky, not to have the entire guild suspended.

5. Yes the DBG note to MM members was a bit harsh, but it's the same note that is sent to anyone getting a suspension. If your people got and quit, that's on them. DBG overreacted, realized their mistake within a few hours and reversed it.

So now that all of that is out of the way, can we please get over the perception that FI wants all of MM suspended. Quite frankly, MM is not competition for us - in fact AD has been and still is more competition to FI than MM has been in more than a month and quite frankly, I welcome it. We don't really truly care about MM with the exception that Dima and a few others now have this raging hatred because they didn't get the FACTS of the situation with Sky and the subsequent very temporary suspensions.

You know what I do care about as a Raid Leader of Faceless Insanity? I care about the people (yes there are people behind them-there monitors) having fun, killing stuff, getting their phat loots and experiencing content, in the way that it was originally meant to be experienced (competitively) and being the best possible players that we can be.

Do I care about other guilds? I'll be honest, not as much as I care about my guild. Why? Because they aren't the people I speak with daily, weekly etc. Do I have to play nice in the sandbox? YES, I do have to play nice. Because I recognize that not everyone has the same desires and goals and that if I don't play nice, chances are, my goals and the goals of FI won't be fulfilled. I'm willing to give and take.

I don't however feel like I should be FORCED into playing nice because 80% of the server won't get off their butts and compete. This game is different from all others because there is no instancing. It was meant to force people to compete to see content in era. It is not carebear, happy fun time unicorns who poop rainbows with panda's and fluffy bunnies. In era, it's hard. It takes 50+ people to band together and kill stuff repeatedly to see end game content.

If that isn't your cup of tea, then the door to the live servers and instanced content is to the left. In fact, I'm pretty sure that Dima and Citizen still play on another TLP server which has caught up to current content (instanced) so why in the hell do you even care?

That said, I can't even count how many times I've given away Hate trash drops for free to the likes of DHS, MiM, AD and others who were farming. I recall at least a hand full of times I (or Darth) handed out dragon loot to people who witnessed an FI dragon kill and needed the gear more than anyone in our raids. We've postponed getting our raid force together to kill dragons already past the agreed upon engage timers because we wanted people to get the kill. My wife and I showed up to a DHS and Free Masons kills to rez people after their fight was successful because we were proud that they didn't give up.

So please tell me again that Faceless Insanity doesn't give a crap about the community, and I'll tell you again, that you're full of **it!

Oh and Remember #FacelessCares <3

But Silinius, how do we know all these really insider things like "the bans came from a Sr Guide and not a GM? Or that Roshen and Holly didn't know about the bans?

How do we know this?!?!?!

Ask Roshen

On the Vulak'Aerr server the loot table changes didn't happen until a few weeks after Luclin went live; I know this because the guild I was in, Reload Ing Pleasewait, did most of their raiding of Sleeper's Tomb at the end of Velious and beginning of Luclin era and had a number of drops from both loot tables. I would imagine it will be the same here with the old loot tables remaining throughout Velious and then changing over with the first patch after Luclin opens up.

I think there should be an FFA period at the beginning of every expansion that is at least long enough for those that like to race and beat an expansion in record time can have their fun. 2-4 weeks is plenty of time for Ruins of Kunark to be completed. So I think i would probably be in favor of about 1 month of full FFA on Kunark then going back to the 3:1 rotation.

I believe it has been asked that the petitions that were sent in be posted in their entirety, so that any issue on this could in fact be cleared up. Obviously Roshen isn't going to be posting those, so it would be reliant on the FI members who sent them in to post.

As for "not knowing dima wasn't there" generally when you send someone a tell and receive a response of "sorry I am afk". That's kind of a clue. Though this topic has be discussed numerous times, so we won't beat this horse again.

What I find amusing. And as a disclaimer, I'm not accusing anyone of anything. But I think it's quite funny to see snubz running around with characters wearing the FI tag. Coincidence? I'm sure, but still raises some eyebrows... Could it be the people in tin foil hats aren't as crazy as previously suspected!?

Just some thoughts. Carry on

Man, such hatred and anger in this one......FYI I'm not in MM, just an innocent bystander being affected by the a$$hatery. Like I said, I could be wrong but you attack everyone over everything and I don't think it's healthy, probably why you need to drink eh? I understand, shame when your hobby isn't even a relief for you because you take it more seriously than real life. Here, I recommend this http://www.olganon.org/home

Somebody save me from the forum warrior who is assuming having a beer is a problem! zomg i should seek help! I should go to AA! I should call my parents and confess that i had a beer! oh the horror of having a beer!!!!! Somebody please help me! I'm a grown man who decided to have a beer! Somebody call the police! Somebody call the FD! Call the Ghostbusters!

lol at you making an attack on my personal life and my decision to have a cold beer on a hot day. BTW, for the record since you are so concerned. That was the first beer i'd had since July 4th. The previous one before that was on my birthday in June. The previous one before that was in like March. Oh the horror of your assumptions! Woe is me! the sky is falling!!

LOL

And now extreme defensiveness...tsk tsk. Calm down bro, it's just a game. No need to justify your actions to me or anyone else, just here to help.

Remember, Makelite cares <3

This is kind of the direction I've been speaking of. Absolutely everyone who is willing to reach max level, gear their toon up via dungeons/world drops and have a raid force capable of taking down raid content deserve an opportunity to kill it like anyone else in that position. However some would rather do it on their own time and at their own pace. Which is cool.

But then you have people who want to do it at a faster pace and be first. Like Protocol said, people have different play styles. I've been preaching this for awhile as well. However Protocol made a great point with the rotation council. Their's an advantage on the voting because you have only a couple of competitive guilds compared to a half dozen casual guilds. So as he mentioned, it will always be skewed no matter how you look at it.

But back to what Darth was saying. Lets say not counting how long it takes to unlock the next expac, but going off the timeline alone. Kunark is 6 months - 2 Months 100% FFA - 2 Months 50/50 FFA-Rotated - 2 Months 3:1 Rotated/FFA. Argue as you see fit, but this takes care of everyone's play style. All guilds capable of raiding get their share. Everyone wins. If casual guilds think this isn't enough than they're being greedy and unreasonable. Because at the end of the day, no matter how much you want to argue, you have the ability to compete during the FFA phase, nothing is stopping you except for yourself.

It will never be 2 months of 100% FFA. No guild, other than Faceless, is willing to level up wizard boxes just to guarantee winning DPS races. 2 months of 100% FFA = 2 months of Faceless monopolizing Trakanon and VP, simply due to having multiple times as many wizards as any other guild.

You say that people have the ability to "compete" during FFA, but competition in this game is dead. It existed long ago, when the PnP was in effect, people didn't poopsock, and most people played single characters (with a few people boxing a few). Unfortunately, at this point, "competition" has devolved to the point that it is unrecognizable, and dps races result in giant zergs that require no skill.

In all honesty, it was pretty clear after the vote that Ragefire was to be the higher paced, more "competitive" server. Sticking to Lockjaw, then wanting competition, is completely backwards. If Faceless wanted to actually compete, then the guild would have moved to RF to face TL.

Silinius, I respect you, I've got to fact check you (Since your leadership didn't privilege you on the private talks apparently)

This is an unfortunate case of your leadership not disclosing what actually happened to you. And probably the rest of your memberbase, if you, an officer, isn't privileged on what happened.

On 8/20 (the day of the incident), Darth, your leader, specifically stated the following (which he denied calling for suspensions, and he also denied threatening to not recognize the rotation -- it was not until a recording emerged that he could no longer deny it)

So, in fact, your leader did want to see if DBG would levy a suspension, and threatened to not recognize the rotation if they did not.

Guides don't have access to the petition/ticket system from my understanding. You can reach out to them by /guidehelp. We've ask for Faceless to disclose all the petitions you've sent in it's entirety, which Faceless refuses to do. DBG further confirmed that the petitions sent in had information that lead DBG to believe that the council had met, and decided to sanction Modest Man, which wasn't true, the petitions were apparently misleading/falsified, thus the reversal on the suspensions.

You actually did know I was AFK, because 1. I wasn't responding, and 2. my AFK message was up. This was the only tell I had from the Faceless member that was recording the video:

[Thu Aug 20 16:41:21 2015] Frosin tells you, 'you should tell your people to not kill in sky on our day unless you want to be removed from the sky rotation'
[Thu Aug 20 16:41:22 2015] You told Frosin, 'Sorry, I am A.F.K. (Away From Keyboard) right now.'

Furthermore, your leadership claimed you contacted the Leaders channel to reach out to us. This never happened, my officers had only confronted yours when you posted the Modest Man breaking the rotation thread.

This is the first I've heard of a Sr. Guide responding to a petition, or that petition that day. Can you clarify your interaction with the Sr. Guide?

This obviously isn't true if DBG stated they were lead to believe by your petitions that the council had met, and decided to sanction Modest Man. Post the petitions.

Their mistake may have been believing your misleading petitions. Your mistake was submitting those misleading petitions.

I thought....Faceless...Cares?

In all seriousness, if you really didn't care, your founder, officers, and members wouldn't be going on tirades, well ahead of this incident.

I've said this before, as the frontrunners here, you had an opportunity to mold the server into what you wanted it to be. You could of encouraged a competitive rotation from the get go, but your rotation you offered to the only guild at the time coming up was a 2-1, no FFA. You even threatened to revert to this "old adage" recently from your leader's own mouth.

Instead of instilling a sense of comradery on the server, you've moved to make enemies, and your leadership has lied not only to the council, but to the community and DBG.

I'm not going to sit idle while the facts of that day are skewed. Your leadership may not want to disclose all the facts of that day (It doesn't surprise me based on their actions), I'm certainly not going to hesitate to get our story out there. Faceless ultimately acted in bad faith in the instance.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion here, as I'm entitled to mine. These are ultimately rotations driven by the COMMUNITY -- all of us here, not ME, nor YOU. And if the community decides we're going to have less FFAs, that's what it's going to be here. If it's going to be more, it's going to be more.

If ultimately the community decides they want more or less FFA, I'll stand by that as a leader. I won't whine here or on any other avenues as your founder does, it's something that the community has chosen and I'll respect that. The expectation is you respect that as well, and unfortunately, your actions have shown otherwise.

Blah blah blah you are such a 1 hit wonder Warrior007. Always acting so innocent and never bringing up the full truth that your guild was initially built around cheating, griefing, and mage-walling. I could name off several notorious names but that is against forum rules. I would be very curious to see how many of these members were actually banned from the game after having multiple suspensions.
Now that pretty much all of the very notorious cheaters are gone and your hired mage-wall guys are gone you are no longer winning any FFA targets or willing to put in the effort to even go after FFA targets. Now, very suddenly your whole guild wants to minimize the amount of FFA targets and some are even fighting for no FFA at the release of the next expansion.

I am so glad I transferred over to Ragefire because if this rotation keeps going to at the rate it has been going as of lately, Lockjaw is going to be absolute trash for any serious raiding guild. Even though the Ragefire rotation is a little confusing, I really think Lockjaw would have benefited from a rotation like that. A rotation that is based around 50% of the mobs being FFA (on average) and a 1 hour lockout for whatever guild killed the last FFA target. With this current rotation there are just too few FFA targets to go around to instate a rule like that.

This is not the direction that we took in classic and I see no need to regress to a worse option for Kunark.

50/50 FFA rotation benefits only the people that can log in at any time of the day. It isn't enough to say that people could theoretically compete during the FFA phase when the already-known fact is that the majority of the server population cannot log in during those hours. If we lived in a perfect world where everyone everywhere could stop whatever they were doing to log into a video game, then I would absolutely agree with you, because at that point it becomes a matter of skill (mobilization and tactics).

But as we all know, that isn't the case.

Now, the underlying supposition for FFA is that people enjoy competition. That's great, and if this were a competitive server, that might serve as a relatively good justification. But this isn't a competitive seasonal server, it is a time-locked progression server, so there is no extra rule set that specifically says that competition is the goal of the server.

Classic Everquest did have competition, it's true, but it isn't the explicit rule set in the same way that a PVP server is specifically for PVP, or a /roleplay server is specifically for roleplaying, etc...competition is great, and some of my best memories (but not exclusively) are of intra-guild competition, but that isn't the same thing as saying that this server was created as a seasonal competitive server.

And, to be honest with you, I don't see any real desire for competition on this server. I see a lot of people that are willing to follow the banner that gives them the most possible chances of victory in a FFA clash, but I don't see many splinter groups that are tired of simply winning that want to actually create the challenge of competition. It isn't as though you would need to even split your guild, you could have red team blue team competition within your guild with different raid forces. But I haven't seen even talk of such a suggestion because really, as long as the mobs are getting dead, people seem to be happy enough.

Now I've said it before and I'll say it again, I believe instancing content while leaving open world spawns FFA is the perfect solution to all of these problems. It isn't that I want to eliminate competition, but I do want a system that is fair for the greatest number of people. Currently, that is a rotation, and as the numbers show by your own dominance, it isn't a 50/50 FFA rotation.

Now, there are plenty of people that read these kinds of posts and reply in extremely condescending tones. I don't really care. Whoever is reading this that wants to attack me, go right ahead. You don't have any power over me, you aren't winning any virtual points, and if it makes you feel good, please, attack me. Condescend to me. Tell me how I want care bears or sunshine and cotton candy and hand holding. Your arrogance only reveals your worthlessness.

But, as I have said to Protocol, I respect people's viewpoints, even where I disagree with them, and am all for open conversation and dialogue. It is not my own goal to attack anyone here and I have re-read my post a few times before posting it because I do not want it taken as an insult to anyone other than the trolls that have no interest in true discourse to begin with.

Miss you pal.

This thread is certainly entertaining. A few guesses, Lawyer or Politician in real life?
Entitlement generation?
I find it entertaining how you can spin everything into you looking like a saint and everyone else looks like the evildoer.

The problem with your statement is the community is NOT deciding anything. The only people making any decisions are the Guild leaders of raid rotation guilds. Yes we can hope that the members of said guilds support their guild leader decisions in this matter thus representing a large portion of the server population.
I honestly feel to satisfy everyone's ability to enjoy all content and play styles that the 6 months unlocks should be split up as I believe Darth mentioned. Though I feel that should look more like
2 Months FFA
2 Months Rotation for qualifying guilds in the rotation
2 Months Open raid format

To better understand the Open raid format idea let me explain.
During this time frame the rotation guilds see a definite drop off in player attendance from boredom so continue the rotation from the 2nd 2 month time frame but rotation guilds open up their raids to unguilded or small guild players to allow them to join in.
For example MM is scheduled for Naggy on rotation, they open up 25 raid slots on first come first server basis to general server population and use standard need rolling system. Odds are except for a very few extremely rare items, most loot would go to those 25 add on raiders.
This allows everyone on server to see and enjoy raid targets and also makes the rotation guilds more involved in the community by continuing to organize raids and helping out the community as a whole.
If every rotation guild did this, the server community would all have a chance to partake.

This also allows time for the slower levelers to get up to raid levels by the time the 4 months of FFA and rotations come to an end.

I respect this post. Some of your posts are garbage but this was actually a good post.
I don't agree with your anti-competitive opinions about this server. I would be really curious about how this servers would be if we had 50/50 FFA except we locked out the last guild to get a FFA kill out for an hour. I think AD/MM would very much enjoy going after those FFA targets and maybe some other sleeper guilds out there possibly.
If the rotation would have gone like that in the first place, I think MM/AD would have got a lot of FFA kills and I would wonder if anyone would be fighting to get rid of FFA targets.

What do you think? Would you be fighting to get rid of FFA if that were the case?