In-game maps would make it much easier for people to return to EQ.

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Strawberry, Apr 25, 2020.

  1. Angahran Augur

    Outdoor zones can be navigated, to an extent, with no maps but who in their right mind would want to attempt something like crystal caverns or velks, or even Akanon without a map ?

    Even with maps, most multi level zones are a complete PITA to navigate.
    Gyurika Godofwar likes this.
  2. SmoochyOfWolfington Augur

    I would not mind that. It meant that you actually explored an area. If you did not get within a distance of so many feet, maybe a hundred or less, it would not show. There could be a door that for all intensive purposes would not show until you got right up on it or even into it. Then when you looked at your map you had feeling of you discovered it yourself.

    It's been twenty years for this old gal. How many more years do you think it will take before it is considered "long time survivability"? ^^! And plus were not the maps on 3rd party EQ sites maps from the community?
    Gyurika Godofwar likes this.
  3. Febb Augur

    Be careful to not run into the statue of limitations.

    Can you list some of the intensive purposes? Not all of them though.
  4. Skuz Berserker Logic: Kill everything.

    I found the height filter settings can make an enormous difference when navigating such places, but each zone can take some time to figure out the values that work best.

    75 is default but often plus or minus 25/50 either side of that can be much more useful
  5. kizant Augur

    Twenty years is barely enough to be considered long term. The next twenty are going to be increasingly more difficult.

    Maps aren't vital to the game so I'm not sure what you're asking about. I'm just proposing that they use maps as an excuse to create a development process that officially includes outside support to help reduce costs.
    enclee likes this.
  6. Angahran Augur

    Try finding anything in crystal caverns or velks or akanon without a map :p
  7. GNOME_POWER Augur

    Greymantle likes this.
  8. Zamiam Augur

    lol .. I was reading your reply and all i could visualize was Sheldon.. ty
  9. Greymantle Augur

    Well one thing they could do, would be to create a series of quests in new zones. Have a cartographer give you a quest to visit various LOC's around the zone and click an item to confirm distance to him When your done he gives you a map of the zone.
  10. kizant Augur

    Maps kinda make people lazy. I knew my way around all three zones back before maps were added to the game and I was never one of those people who made their own maps. I just played a lot and got used to how everything looked and always had land marks to use as a reference point.

    Now, when I go to crystal caverns and can't remember where I'm going I look at the map and it just makes me more confused. Sometimes I'll try to use maps in an old confusing zone like nurga or runnyeye or some random place and I actually have to close the map and just start running around until I get a feel for where I want to go. Eventually it comes back to you but only if you stop trying to think so hard about it and trying to make sense of the map.
    enclee and GoneFission like this.
  11. SmoochyOfWolfington Augur

    The door would not show until either you are either up on it or use it. A map that was autogenerated should only draw what you see or are very near too. Just zoning in or being some where near by, but still quite far away should not show you that part of the map. Even if you could see a door all the way across the map, until you made it close enough, the door would not be physically appointed on your map.

    Twenty years is a long time for MMORPGs. How many more can say they lasted this long, much less doing this well? Other games who were even regarded as EQ killers have even faded away into obscurity. I can only count on one hand who might still be around to say they have lasted and most likely they have evolved so much they are not what once they were. EQ has changed as well, but the base is still EQ.

    I was asking what that person deems long term when EQ is over twenty years old. I do not believe maps are vital either. And we already have people who made maps on 3rd party sites. Were they not from the community as well, at least some of the art work?

    I agree. They have their place and it is their choice of course what they do, but it does take away from the game for sure. Then again some people's idea of fun is not trying to stumble in the dark and get straight to leveling while leaving everything else that makes EQ EQ behind.
  12. kizant Augur

    All the good ones are still around. Ultima Online, DAOC, Asheron's Call, Anarchy Online, and even Meridian 59 still has a few servers. That's just how this genre works. You even have have plenty of muds that are still around that are closer to 30 years old at this point. The player base isn't the issue. It's keeping your software supported and finding new ways to keep things profitable.
  13. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    Do it all the time. Why use maps when you can spend 5 minutes and never need a map again.
  14. SmoochyOfWolfington Augur

    Well there are five fingers on one hand. ^^! However to be honest I had no idea DAoC was still a thing. :eek:And I could of sworn AC was no longer and double checking the wiki at least, it is not. Meridian 59 is still around and on Steam as well. I almost chocked when you said AC though... it's been a while. I like the hierarchy exp system. I am sure it went by another name, but who ever recruited you gets a small amount of your exp. And who ever recruited them, gets a little as well and so on and so forth all the way to the top.
    I am not sure if it was actual exp taken from you or just exp in general.
    Plus you could write notes and leave them laying around as I recall.
    If they are still alive and kicking let me know.

    DAoC... their giant ants used to be EQ's giant rats. ^^!
    Plus the game was just fun. M59... it's a bit hard to stomach for me. AO is AO. I like them, but never committed a lot of time to them. I have never been into Ultima Online however, but had counted them. Shadowbane was interesting when it was around. Bought it and then it went to free mode. ^^! I like the Minotaur race. EQ could stand to use a race like that.

    MUDs are not MMORPGs and I know all about them from The Mud Connector. They had over or did at one point, nine hundred games. Granted only about 50-100 are actually played and only about a quarter of that have any serious amount of players in them. I even tried to find a MUD like EQ or vice versa you could say, and I could not. Sindome is pretty interesting in a dystopia Blade Runner setting and Armageddon is also deep and rich in lore and role playing for a Mad Max-esque setting with a bit of Dune thrown in for good measure. But they go a little too extreme in rping.

    If you don't follow the rules in MUDs or try to cheat or even simply use the numpad for cardinal directions instead of actually pressing N, E, S, W and Enter you can get you in trouble. Star Conquest was also a good one, at least in terms of atmosphere. Plus with MUDs blind people can play them which I think is great.

    Edit: I have no ide why the text size changes in this post...
  15. Strawberry Augur

    I went to the site you mentioned. All my browsers threw out a warning because the site is not a HTTPS site, therefore it is anything but secure. Sites need to be HTTPS to be secure, or a hacker can hijack the download, even if the files on the site were initially safe.

    (as you will note in your URL window, EQ, Steam, Blizzard, Epic...all of these sites are https sites, which prevents URL and download hijacks)

    Forcing players to download ZIP files from unsecure sites to be able to enjoy a game is horrible practice that simply needs to stop.

    It is not safe for existing players, and it is a major hindrance for returning players.


    Secondly, Google has already removed non-HTTPS from its listing. Google and Firefox are also planning to outright block downloads from non-HTTPS sites. It will no longer simply be a warning, it will become impossible to download anything from non-HTTPS sites (rightfully so).

  16. Strawberry Augur

    Just wanted to add. I do not know the people making these maps, I can only assume there are dedicated EQ players who spent a lot of time making these maps and I'm sure most players are very grateful, I do not want to slight their work.

    However, having to download zip files from non-HTTPS sites in 2020 to enjoy a game is unacceptable. No one would accept this in other games, no one should accept this in this game. Thousands of people still play this game, you can not rely on 1 or 2 individuals running unsecure sites as a means to provide maps to your playerbase.
  17. Fian Augur

    I see benefits from both approaches. Player maps are going to have more information that EQ will want to give players automatically. So there is still a market for player made maps. However, nothing is preventing EQ from having default maps like they do for starter zones. The problem is that there are a lot of zones that don't have default maps. EQ would have to develop a way to read the source files and convert that into the map format. The basics would be black lines for walls and maybe a blue line for a border with water. Even then, you would probably at also want at least names for zone lines as well.
  18. kizant Augur

    What other games were there from that time? Looking on a wikipedia list there's one called The 4th Coming that I never hard of it. Turns out it's still active too. I'm having trouble finding games that aren't still running after 20+ years. And yes, EQ is just a fancy mud and that's the best way to look at it if you want to understand the majority of players.
  19. Angahran Augur

    Honestly ?
    If you had never been in crystal caverns for example, you could navigate your way from on end to the other in 5 minutes ? (assuming no mobs, just the empty zone).
    And you'd have the layout memorized ?

    I'm impressed.
  20. SmoochyOfWolfington Augur

    I have to agree with Strawberry, no one should have to worry about downloading files from an unsecure site. It simply makes no sense to. I also do not want the little man to be cut out of the picture entirely of doing good by the community or themselves and not having the resources to get a secure server or what have you, but we still should not have to download from them.

    Back in my creative days I used to frequent a site called Deviant Art. (Ignore the name ^^! ) People do art, crafts and stories there and a lot of them go out of their way to make something unique and beautiful. There were cartographers or at least those who drew like them for fantasy settings. No doubt they could contribute to EQ, if they have not already.

    That is what I am talking about. Twenty plus years is a long time for any MMORPG to still be running and making some kind of a profit at least. There are few and far between that can say the same. If it helps at all, look for the list of discontinued MMOPRGs, maybe you will understand better. ^^!

    Also by your logic, all MMORPGs that fit under the style of EQ can be considered MUDs and they are not. EQ is not a MUD nor even considered a graphical MUD. That is why it and other's like it, are called MMORPGs. I know where the premise of EQ came from, but it still does not make it a MUD.

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