If 2023 TLP is PvP TLE server

To emphasize, Some of the devs from back then are not even working there anymore. Holly was director back at that time, she's no longer here. They've added some new ones since then. Times change. Just because it wasn't viable back then, doesn't mean it might not be now.

At least someone gets it! Just because it may never be possible or happen, doesn't mean we can't at least talk about it! I've been trying to get Waring to understand that concept for the past how many pages? Lol.

I'm content with the fact that it may never happen. I would be happy if just one year this topic could be brought up and be an actual fun discussion. That's the whole point of TLP's, we get to reminisce in the past. For some of us, the past includes PvP prior to the Zek merge. It was a fun time. Here we are, 15-20 years later. What could PvP in today's world look like? I think that should be the focus of discussion on topics like this. Whether or not it's possible, will always be up to DBG. That can be a totally separate discussion.

I love that one of the examples of a "high showup" for Zek was when free Krono were being given away. You mean a tradeable item that can be used on every other server might draw in people? No kidding. Maybe the "high showup" had a lot more to do with people coming to collect their $10-18 dollar item instead of having much interest in Zek. It certainly didn't do much for keeping people interested in Zek once the event was over.

You literally cannot even pay people to come and stay on Zek.

I have to agree with Lejaun here... Even I laughed at using that as a comparison, lol.

I think the biggest hold up to ever getting a PvP TLP isn't trying to show there is demand for such a server, but more likely is finding a Dev to that enjoys EQ PvP enough to undertake such an endeavor. Because as the game stands right now if they was to just slap together a PvP TLP and release it without doing a massive overhaul to the skills/spells and just overall combat system, that server will fail miserably; even if there really is thousands of even hundreds of PvPers waiting for it to release.

Even if they did find a dev or two willing to put the time and effort I to doing it; it will take at least until next round of TLPs before they could have the server in a somewhat balanced state.

If car companies see no interest in a specific car in their lineup they discontinue it. If restaurants see little interest in a dish on their menu, they remove it.

Google has discontinued dozens of applications and software. They are in the service industry. Should they just keep wasting resources on things that don't make them money so a handful of people can use it? No, and that's completely irrational, selfish, and conceited of you if you believe they should.

DPG offers the service of an MMO and they see no interest in PVP so they simply won't waste resources to offer it. Just like every company would do.

Did I ever say you can't talk about it? I just remind you of what has been said about it in the past and what they said was needed to be done for it to be considered. You are the only one who keeps asking someone to stop talking about something.

Yeah, that is unfortunately the reason they probably won't do it. I'm pretty sure a PvP TLP could maintain a decent population if someone did what you describe, but it's just not realistic to hope for. If they haven't done anything about stuff like the monk epic fist ratio on any previous TLPs, there's no chance that a dev will painstakingly sit there and correct every spell in the game just for the sake of a single server. In addition to that, the fact that there's essentially no way to combat the use of That One Third-Party Cheat Program means they know there's no point. They'd have to basically redesign the entire networking interface of the game, and that's not happening.

PvP works well in EQ within a shroud/monster mission format. I've participated in shrouded PvP events and it'd be doable.

Even if there is a demand for something, businesses will discontinue an item if there aren't any resources (or extremely limited resources) to support it. This not only includes ingredients/components and developer time but also customer support. Daybreak is a business.

Not TLP specific, I would like to see more resources given to the "casual" game (housing, appearance stuff, etc.) but I also know that desire is very unlikely to get support, too, even though there are other players who want it too.

I do keep mentioning it from time to time, because a squeaky wheel can't be heard if it's muffled which is why I think it is valid to request having a PVP TLP, but without making it a demand or demeaning/attacking other players. It's also valid that other players mention, respectfully, how unlikely it will happen because of the resources it would require and previous DB personnel declarations about it.

I would interpret those as saying we can't talk about it...

All I asked is for you to stop posting the same exact comment to every Pro PvP comment. You've said it like a 100 times in this thread alone. We heard you...

Why can't we have an actual discussion about PvP, without having to spend countless pages arguing about the same exact point you constantly post? Like I said before, they've made 1 official statement in how many years? That statement may still hold true, and that's fine. There's no point in arguing that unless they release a new statement. But that doesn't mean we can't have a civilized discussion about what PvP "Could" look like, without being trolled every year.

Just because it very well may never happen, doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to have a discussion and present different idea's about what it "Could" look like.

And I never said to stop posting requests for a PvP server but suggested that it would be better to focus on the requests to show a demand for a PvP server by working on getting the population of the current PvP server up.

Exactly! There's tons of player ideas that people would love to have implemented. The reality is, a lot of them may never happen. I was never big on housing, so I would have no interest in that. That doesn't mean you can't still request it and have a discussion about the various aspects of that request in the slight chance that they do implement it.

New Weapon Ornaments used to be one of my higher requests. We lucked out and had someone organize a request thread and vote on what they wanted most. That player put in a lot of back end work to help the devs make that reality a possibility, by reducing their work load to do it. For PvP, there's not really anything players can do to make it easier for them to implement. So we're left with just continuing to request it every now and then.

That's all I'm trying to say! I've never "Demanded" it and I doubt many on here have "Demanded" it as well. It's just a request/thought. We should be able to have a respectful/productive discussion about PvP, without being trolled every year. Like I said before to Waring, I have no problem with him posting what the devs said before. But posting it over and over and over... to every Pro PvP comment, I consider that trolling. The ultimate decision will always be up to DBG. And Waring very well may be right about it never happening. But we should still be able to request it and have a civilized discussion about it.

And I've said that I don't think that will make a difference one way or the other. There was the event several years ago to get the Devs attention, at the time it wasn't enough. I don't think we could do something like that again now and get different results. So for me, that isn't the better topic.

Zek is never going to see a population increase again. That server is what it is, if people aren't playing on it now, they're not going to start anytime soon. But we're not requesting a Zek clone. We want something similar but different. What would be different? Well that's the whole point of discussing it. Just because it may never happen, doesn't mean we can't try and come up with different ideas.

Maybe next time boys.

PVP TLP 2035

See you next Year PvP TLP fanatics....

https://www.everquest.com/news/eq-producers-letter-april-2023

You may be right but it is also true that it will never happen if no one who wants a TLP PvP server bothers to make an attempt.

These posts are the community making an attempt... Just because it's not as significant of an attempt as what was done years ago, doesn't mean it's not still an attempt. Will it ever be enough? That's up to the devs to decide. So far, they don't think it is. But that doesn't mean that one day they finally say, maybe we should finally give this a try. It's been requested for the past how many years now? Is there a significant chance of them doing that? Probably not, but it's also not a 0% chance. Like I said, if they came on here year after year and said "Nope, never happening". Then I would say it's officially hit a 0% chance. So until they do that, we're going to keep seeing this topic brought up.

The posts asking for a TLP PvP server to be created are not going to draw players to play on Zek or to go red on another TLP server to help provide evidence that there is actual demand for a TLP PvP server. The devs have stated what they need to happen in order to consider one and more threads requesting the server wasn't one of the options.

No, these posts are not going to draw people into Zek. The red idea was interesting, but like I said before, I don't think it's viable with how the current system works for going "Red". Maybe that should be the main request. Baby steps to getting what we ultimately want. Maybe changing how going "Red" works is a lot more feasible than making a PvP TLP. We don't know, I've never seen them address an idea like that. I don't think it would be a trivial task, but it could be possible.

The Devs have made one official statement in how many years? Like I said before, Holly was director at the time, she's no longer here. Some of the devs from back then are no longer here. There are new devs now, that weren't around back when that statement was made. Just because that was the requirement at the time, doesn't mean it will always be the requirement for the end of time.