If 2023 TLP is PvP TLE server

Whatever you need to tell yourself to cope, you're arguing semantics. People aren't talking about not having the Common Language when talking about FV ruleset. They're talking about free trade. The Devs thought a free trade server wouldn't work. The forums argued against free trade for like 3 years. Guess what both of these groups were wrong as usual.

p99 is the most popular E M U PvE EQ server
p99 Red IS NOT THE MOST popular PvP server. RoZ is. RoZ is normally about 1/3 the population of blue. 1/3 the population of every Phinny clone would be a profitable server.

So instead of 40 people it has around 140 people? That shows that it isn't that popular when looking at the other options.

Nah more like mid 300s during prime time. P99 only gets like 1k during prime time and peaks at 2.5k sometimes with new content. Classic start TLPs tend to get three times that or more. A PvP TLP should be expected to hit about 3x RoZ bare min. When 99 Red was the most popular pvp it peaked at 600+ players. A reasonable estimate for a Phinny clone that's red would be 1-2k peak and 500-1k nightly. That's better then every special ruleset they've done besides Mischief

These figures you're pulling up are some hopeful numbers lol.

Got a better way of making an estimate?
Or just irrational hatred like everyone else?

There is way to much of a famine mentality in this community. Specifically from a few active board posters that pretend to be the majority. It doesnt cost that much to host a server, specially in house. Just spin up a pvp server and launch a blue server with it so the people that are afraid they wont get their server will shut up.

If p99 can hold a red server so can we. The entire Rust Gaming Community runs 200-300 pop servers and makes bank with most of their population NOT paying for monthly subs and have less gimmick for sale. If we cant manage to launch a pvp server that is literally just a clone of previous code then it might be time to look for better management.

This forum post has the most activity, so thanks for keeping it in the sunlight for us "minority" players lol

You just claimed it was 1/3rd of a server that was showing 407 players how is anyone supposed to guess that you meant 1/3rd of some different number that is a source that only you know? And regardless 300-400 people isn't anywhere close to the numbers needed to support a TLP PvP server.

Also how many times does it need to be repeated that past numbers don't matter at all and if 99 Red was really that popular why is it dead now and why haven't they made a new version?

If this was actually true why are the devs asking for the PvP crowd to show that there is support for PvP by playing on the existing PvP server? As far as costs go there is a difference between spinning up a new server and keeping an existing one running.

Remember this isn't the players requesting that something needs to be done to show demand but what the devs have stated.

It's crazy to think a pvp server would not be swarmed with warpers + other cheats that would make it unbearable. This isn't 2000 and it would be an absolute show.

It's also crazy and stupid to think that a valid way of checking for support of a ruleset is to see how many people, who actually manage to find the random details of the event, log into a dead server and sit there and do nothing as a way of showing justification. 95% of the people, who would actually give this a shot wouldn't do that for this ruleset or pretty much any other ruleset.

It is also crazy to think that a ruleset that that only has low population servers will suddenly get support because a new server is created and none of the problems are solved.

There is a central hub for every E M U server including P99. That hub tells you exactly how many people are on the Server. Rise of Zek has been the most popular PvP E M U for years. E M U servers always gets A LOT less then actual TLPs typically around 1/4th 1/3ed of what a similar ruleset tlp gets. If ROZ is getting 300+ in prime time you should expect A LOT more then that.

Red was popular before it was locked into the same expansion for half a decade. The only reason Blue remains high is cause half the population is AFK in the tunnel which obviously people don't do on Red.

Again, you replied to a post that listed numbers and didn't indicate that the numbers you talked about are different. It would be really helpful if you provided a source for your numbers instead of just asking people to believe them

If it was that popular why would they not create a new server for a fresh start? The seem to have done that for the PvE population so why not the PvP population?

I stated the source you're just to lazy to do a Google search.

Because it's a private server and they do things very slowly, they have jobs, families and stuff that are more important then pumping out servers. Rogean said he was gonna do another Red Server eventually, so it will probably come out sometime between Ashes of Creation and Pan'theon

You should provide your source and not expect everyone to do a google search to find the numbers that you are claiming.

Sure but if they are making new servers why would they not make a PvP server if it was popular and the current one has issues due to its age? You seem to have a lot of excuses for the population on the PvP server.

Yes, if they make a Zek clone, they would solve none of the issues with Zek and it absolutely would be a failure. You would still see the initial "New Server" rush like any TLP they release would, but it would die just as fast as Zek did when they merged the 4 servers.

Making a new PvP TLP is their chance to fix some of the major issues with Zek, using already developed server types. The 2 main issues that killed Zek is the FFA ruleset and giving up on class balance in later expansions. They can easily correct those two mistakes by going back to a Team Based ruleset and expansion locking it like Agnarr.

No one wants a Zek Clone, that would be the dumbest idea ever. You don't find success by doing the same thing that already failed. Saying it failed just because it's PvP, is short sighted. There was more to it than just "it's PvP".

I was there for the mass exodus from Zek after the merge. I stuck around for maybe a week or two and everyone who I talked to, that also left like me, attributed it to the new rule set. Everyone from the 3 Team Servers hated the new FFA rule set. After the merge, Zek was probably the highest population server for a few weeks until everyone from the Teams servers jumped ship, because it's not what we signed up for or liked. It wasn't the fact it was PvP, we all signed up for the PvP, it was the fact that we enjoyed the team aspect of it a lot more than a FFA server. The class unbalance was also a heavy contributor, it was already becoming an issue way back then. Now a days, it's even worse.

Going back to Teams and putting a cap on what expansions unlock would solve the 2 biggest problems with Zek.

But why spend the time and resources on a new PvP server if the people asking for it are not willing to do the little work that has been asked of them to show that there is a demand for it?

From what I am reading from your post if the ruleset isn't exactly what they want they won't bother playing which means the devs have to make a guess at what is wanted.

There was only 2 versions of "Team Based" PvP. TZ and VZ had it split by races into 4 teams. SZ had it split by Deity, I'm not exactly sure how many teams that had. I don't think anyone would not play just because they choose one version over the other. Personally I would prefer the Race Teams. Seeing how that was the only rule set with 2 identical servers, that would be my first suggestion. Just don't do FFA.

This is also why I kept bringing up just letting people have a true discussion on PvP without spamming the thread with the same thing over and over... We can't even have a true discussion to see what peoples preferred rulesets would be without it turning into a dumpster fire of "Play on Zek" and "Show Support" comments.

Having a discussion about PvP is only valuable if you can also show that there is a demand for PvP. It has been proven before that people can and will troll discussions about how a server should be setup rule wise to help make it tank.

Since FFA is the "least common denominator" for PVP which is why I'm guessing that's why they went with that on the merge. A community could align itself into teams or their own preference rather than it being mandated by ruleset. But that relies heavily on the community itself mandating it and finding some cooperative way to enforce it. Going Red on a Blue server is kind of like that, too. It requires a very dedicated community to support it.

But, from what I have heard from those who are proponents of PvP in games including from posts in this thread, the PvP in EQ is badly broken not by the ruleset but by the development choices made for PvE and class imbalance that's also present in PvE. Sadly, as they're unlikely to make sweeping choices to balance classes better in PvE, I sincerely doubt they're going to invest even more development into balancing them specifically for PvP. From my somewhat limited knowledge of EQ2 PvP, PvP class balance is very different than PvE class balance. Many spells and skills that are good for PvE are absolutely dreadful in PvP.

It really is a lot different than just turning on a server and locking it to a specific era to make PvP work in EQ, even without the proliferation of potential cheat programs. However, it is those cheat programs that would also make it even more of a nightmare for Customer Service. The cost of a server is not just the price of the hardware, it's also the staff that would be needed specifically to support it. Because TLPs are subscriber only, there is a different level of entitlement expected with regards to support.

As much as I would love to see a PvP TLP, if only to allow those who like that gameplay an outlet for it, I can also see why Daybreak would be loathe to do it for many many many business reasons.

I did provide the source... You're refusing to go to the source.

They said they plan on one..... it took them like 5 years to get from Kunark to Velious and it took them like another 3 years before they did green. They move very slow. p99 has existed for like 12-13 years and they only have 3 servers my dude.

You seem to be unable to accept reality.