If tanking is to remain so gear dependent then gear for tanks should be much more common and a bit more front loaded. If you are level 90 and need 3k AAs and the best available group gear to tank a mob that is fine, but it shouldn't be that in order to function you practically need the best gear from an expansion at the beginning of an expansion. One of the draw backs of mercs and pets in the past was that leveling with a merc or pet was easy because it's front loaded. The merc or pet doesn't get to level 95 and then need to spend weeks to months gathering more AAs, gear, augs in order to survive. No other class type has this issue. You don't want to make it so easy a monkey could do it, but you want to help out enough that players that haven't played tanks actually find it interesting and not just a job. AA descriptions are far too often vague or misleading. This needs to be corrected and it needs to stop happening. Work is fine, knowledge is fine, skill is really not something evident in EQ. The only skill you have to have is the ability to keep track of 60k buttons. When to use them and what they do is knowledge. Some of this needs to be done for all classes, but tanks need it particularly.
With NTTB, Warriors are a lot less gear dependant. Whether that is actually a good thing overall I'm not sure. It certainly makes the class more enjoyable to newer players with lesser gear/augs. But then it also diminishes the "goal" of maximising your character. The Developers said not too long ago they didn't want to introduce more mitigation effects for tanks (when they were discussing Defensive Discipline) because they didn't want to have to create mobs which would still be challenging for tanks and yet not one round casters/dps. Since then they've extended Phalanx and introduced NTTB. The difference between having NTTB on and off for group content is night and day.
They didn't take measures that prevented players from doing it. They took measures to stop it after a given point. Until that point it's a factor in groupability and how guickly a tank can progress. Translation - it impacts not max level/max AA'd players. Translation - primarily non-raiders. (I can get a level in a day easily soloing (not moloing) with my 75 Ranger. I'd imagine it's even easier with a tank that can swarm). Too dependent on a shield to tank? That's like saying tanks are too dependent on weapons to DPS with another player tanking. Newsflash - most non-raiding Warriors are dependent on shields to tank. Some raiders not being as dependent widens the already wide DPS gap - non-raider S&B, raiders tanking with a melee DPS class setup. Brazen Barricade - level 92 ~200AC ~2000HP Attunable drops all the time not just in hardcore heritage zones or in raids. Part of the more widely available level 90 Armor and level 92 accessories found in RoF. Paragon's Targe level 80ish ~155AC ~853HP awarded for completing a Hero's Path achievement PLUS you get another near top quality item. They are making better armor and accessories available to lower level non-raiders. And better shields. Shields however (and perhaps aggro weapons for use with a shield) aren't very spectacular at all. They upgrade a shield and likely don't even get a 1% survival improvement. Not enough impact.
Many classes (not just tanks) can tank group content in raid gear without a shield. Tuning group content to require shields is a nerf to more than just tanks.
Exactly and he knows just as much, the fact we continually get the run-around instead of simply acknowledging it shows just how far off base this particular poster is. That being said, I hope this thread doesn't also turn into "BB vs the world" round 97. Plenty of ideas have been exchanged here, some good and some slightly less good. It seems universally agreed upon that tanks require the most work to get going, whether or not the dev team also realizes this is another story as well as whether or not this should even be changed at all.
My warrior and sk (group gear) do not need a shield for any group content with a single merc healer. It helps on multi pulls, but still nothing a merc can't handle safely without man problems. My ranger has a harder time without a shield. Monk with staff block has no problems. I can't comment on raid content. The idea I see continually floated that would help a ton are easy starter aug sets for all slots that are comparable to very old content (ie UF or similar). Gear isn't hard. Aa's just have to be earned, but camping old Augs just so you can go camp new augs just so you can make progress makes it harder for tanks. Support, healers, and dps do not have this requirement.
Yeh some tradeskillable augs as a stop gap so people can fill slots would be cool, and none of that skimpy 25ac crap, make it 35ac no other stats, Non lore. Blam solution
I think maybe a lower amount of AC and some good heroics might help. To help new tanks get an idea of what to look for in augs rather than just AC. Make them only usable by Warriors, SKs, and Paladins.
i disagree. No less then 35 if they even were to make them. Throw 1 or 2hagi/dex on if necessary but no less then 35ac. required level of like 85ish to 88.
I'd like to see statistical superiority in terms of class/AA and gear re-asserted. The difference between tanks and other classes in terms of HP for example is less than a hit from your average trash mob... and a fraction of the average spell hit we see from named (who aren't hitting other players with melee damage, typically) Compare HP on group tanks to pets for example.
If you look on the group vendor for CotF you will see lots of hp/mana augs for melee and casters but no ac augs. AC augs tend to be harder to get then normal (Limestone or darklight emblem for instance) and tend to be only missions or they are in the deepest darkest pit, glyph from epicenter herald (i think) for instance is not all that easy with group gear. I'm not saying that ac augs aren't obtainable at all but of the recent expansions, ac augs tend to be harder to get then others. Boo nobles blood room!
raid geared people are massively more capable than group geared people. simple fact. EM 20 vs EM 15?, thousands of ac difference, huge differences in item focus damage..just to name a few things.
Warriors could get an disc "Battle Frenzy", which convert 20..50..80% of damage done into health. With endurance cost and reuse timer the devs can easy control how good the disc gets, can be last forever with 20% health, or short with long reuse time with 100% health). I like what battleaxe wrote, bump shields, create TS AC Augs with 35..40..45 ac, non lore for every slot, just not that expensive that you can only afford one or two. This would help alot.
This would be highly exploitable. See also: Shadowknight swarming. Also, IMO self-healing is out of character for the class.
Even if you compare this to an Mortal Coil proc, and even if it would make the warrior able to swarm, where is the problem ? You still wont swarm high level mobs. And if the disc only last 60 seconds for 30% health, then you wont have enough time to kill your swarm. And tbh, even if that would be enough time. Who cares: Shadowknights, Clerics, Paladins, Mages, Ranger, Berserker, and i think even Rogues can do this up to a point. Why not the Warrior. Can change the disc : Battle Frenzy, can be toggled on/off : Converts Endurance in an 1:5 ratio to health.
Raid shields ac has drastically increased since VoA. Group shields have not. just 1 slot for tanks does make that big of a difference.
