How important is it to play your best on a raid?

There was an earlier thread where someone mentioned that the pet a magician uses on a raid is a matter of personal preference. Another response said that the person (who plays a different class) does not care what pet a magician uses. I have been in several guilds over my 13 plus years playing, and have noticed various comments from various players on various classes about what AA they use (or not use) onraids... what spells they cast, and in what order... and what their gear goal is (or maybe they do not have a goal and just bid on anything that looks like an upgrade).

I know I have asked a lot of questions to my fellow magicians about AA burn orders, spell weaves, etc. I have done research to create a plan as to what gear is a priority for my class and character. I know that on raids I personally am trying to do everything I can to help maximize my character on the event so that the guild is successful. I also know that I have met players over the years who turn attack on and that is it... who are not casting the right spells to maximize damage (and some not even casting spells)... not using any AA... etc.

So I am curious on this two part question:

1. How important is it to you that you are doing everything you can to maximize your DPS or healing or tanking on a raid?

2. How important is it to you that the other 53 raiders on the event are doing the same as you with regards to maximizing skills and talents and abilities to help the raid?

To answer my own questions...

1. It is very important to me that I am doing everything I can to help out the raid. I do not want to feel like I am not trying so as to waste the time of 53 other players. I do make the occasional mistake (I wiped our raid on Xorbb3 with a mistake I made), but I own up to it and ensure it does not happen in the future.

2. It would be nice if all 54 players are giving 100% effort and effectiveness on a raid. But I live in the real world and I realize sometimes things happen. There are always some key people on each event that need to give 100% for a raid to be successful. For those not in key positions, you need to be as close to 100% as you can unless circumstances prevent. The rogue who turns attack on then watches TV.. problems! The mother of two who plays a wizard and is trying to take care of a sick child... doesn't need to go 100%. As long as she is helping then she is contributing.

I think you have to make a distinction between people who sincerely attempt to play at 100% of what their toon can be yet often fall in the 70-80% range due to mistakes, time played, knowledge, or even just a bad night and those who give 10-20% because they don't really care. Even skilled vets occasionally mail it in on raids they are bored with, even though they give 110% on new targets.

In the end, I think your first goal should be actually filling those 54 slots, then trying to get the most you can out of who you have, while not setting the performance bar so high as to discourage incremental improvement over time. I don't know if many guilds have the luxury to require even 80% effort all the time from all their members.

You answered your own question on why many guilds are floundering around the midlevel and why others like mine are at the top. Players get out of the game what they put in and it's the collective players that don't put in the 100% that want things toned down. There is not some magical gift or ability from the game that gives some guilds an "easier" time than others, it's the effort and drive to play the very best.

I agree and disagree Rafather,

People who play casual or as you say " don;t put in 100 % " , as a whole do not want things " tuned down"

this is a common misconception just because they play the game differently than some end game players.
If you notice in other threads here, Ronak the leader of Machin Shin , has asked en masse for changes to the "group" game as if it present a challenge to him and his end game players ( from any guild ) casual players will most likely not be able to complete them.

People from all walks of life and ranks and skill levels seek changes and tune up's or downs to the game so it is fair for all and enjoyable by all.

Also another misconception is end game players give 100 %, which has been explained already earlier, is obviosuly not the case. Every guild has some players who just do not give the effort.

this could be for any number of reasons so it is not fair to group them all together and must be assessed on a case by case situation for each individual.

also being i na guild that has a large or smaller number of 100%ers doesnt say whether an individual gives 100% or not. Giving 100% from 45 ppl is different from 54 ppl as well as doing so 10hours a week vs 20, 2nights vs 6nights. in t2voa gear vs t2 rof gear... none of those things determine how much a given player gives on their raids so to assume that anyone having issues with an event is just some lazy schmuck simply bc theyre not in YOUR guild (not you melli) with 54 perfectly balanced classes 6 nights a week to be thefrist to beat soemthing....that's as bad as assuming anything, which we know what that does.

Probably depends a lot on your class. Tanks and especially healers need to be doing their best as their failures get punished with wipes.

DPS probably don't need to be at their best.

One good thing is that raid sizes in EQ are pretty big when compared to other MMOs, so a sub par performance of any one guy in an EQ raid won't make as much difference as a screw up of one guy in a smaller unit in some other MMO.

depends on the event heh there are more and more where 1 screwup can break you

We have this conversation within guild often, and I know I've debated some of the points with folks on these forums over the last couple of years.

There will always be guilds who:

1. Really want you to push yourself and that's what they expect from recruits/members (and by push I mean try to do eschelon results).
2. Have 20-40% exceptional players and 60-80% who fall into the average or lower category - but together the effort is still enough to win things, though most likely they may never be fully clean or quick wins.
3. Have the same spread as #2, but struggle with things like strats, etc.
4. and so on

Ultimately I think it falls into a "it depends" category. If your alignment and believes don't exactly line up with your guild's beliefs on the subject, that can cause a lot of stress, pressure and anxiety and dislike of the game at times for you and the guild overall. Sometimes it may be better to find a guild that better embodies the same values you have; other times you just need to adjust your own views (either by not attributing your values onto other players) and sometimes it's ok to try and push the guild to be better - but note that this tends to be an area that gets very drama filled so approach it carefully.

~~
To answer C's questions for myself:
1. How important is it to you that you are doing everything you can to maximize your DPS or healing or tanking on a raid?
- I try to do the best I can, but I don't push myself to get every last drop out of my healing. I push enough to make things easier on my group heal partner but I don't think I go crazy with it.

2. How important is it to you that the other 53 raiders on the event are doing the same as you with regards to maximizing skills and talents and abilities to help the raid?
- I'm more of a 'what's the minimum we need to succeed ... now let's do better than that each time' and reward those who do well rather than trying to 'start at the top max possible talent and critize those who can't meet that.'
- So to take that into healing directly, yes, I get miffed if someone is slacking but it has to reach a major slack level for me to see red. Every healer on the team has strengths and weaknesses so I don't judge someone if they're weak in an area, just if they're weak overall and not even trying.

1. Ridiculously so, I find it extremely important that I be performing any job(s) I am assigned for any particular raid as effectively as possible. This can be tanking, offtanking, MAing, kiting, healing when I have to bring my clr box to a raid. This of course includes paying attention to emotes and responding accordingly. I also often take it upon myself to help with strategies, /rs things the entire raid needs to know now, whatever is needed for it to be a win. Stress levels some nights, over 9000!

2. If they are doing enough to do their job, that is enough for me. Otherwise get out, the end.

1. All or nothing. Wether it's casting ADPS buffs, pumping healers or dps'ing. Either I give 100 pct or don't show.

2. People are people and will have a bad day (lets face it, we all do) so screw ups will happen from time to time, however if you are a consistent AFK'er or are too busy cyboring to raid and keep messing up, then it should be hit the road jack. That's just wasting 53 other players time and totally rude and selfish.

Playing your best on raid is really the most important thing.
However, that being said, it's not just about playing your best. There's a bunch of other factors that can take a guild that is 'playing their best' and still cause them to lose on an event.

Communication, Understanding, and Coordination are very important as well.
Communication- Be clear in raid instructions and any call outs that happen mid event. Voice programs really help with this as someone communicating vital information limited by their own typing speed is just awful.
Understanding- Make sure you understand what your specific role is. Most guilds would rather you ask a question, regardless of how 'stupid' you think it is, than not asking the question and show that you are stupid.
Coordination - This really comes in time, it's a level of familiarity. This gets better as more people play their best and you come to learn what you can expect from the people around you.

It's not really about how good an individual person is, because playing your best really isn't about the individual. Really, in a lot of ways, the three points I listed directly above this can really go a long way into playing your best.

At the end of the day though, everyone playing their best on raid generally makes things easier.

Although I'm "the evil one" that rather goes with Fire or Air Pet - just because of personal preference,
I do my utmost to not mess up the raid for all the others.

What has become more and more important in the last expansions is "following emotes".
Granted, everyone has a bad day somewhen and fails an emote.
But having the same players failing emotes on rinse and repeat events is what annoys me to hell.
Events like Sepulcher #4, Xorbb #1, RT - Emote Failure often means a complete wipe.
Same goes for understanding and following the RL instructions.

Over the years - no matter which guild - I have always met players that log in for the raid,
sit on their butt and wait till shiny loot is distributed - not caring bout emotes, not caring
bout tactics, blatantly dumb almost wiping or even wiping the raid. Without consequences.
And THIS is the pity for the other players involved - not if a mage uses a pet with 3 k dps more or less.

End of Story.

I expect everyone in my guild to put in at most about 25%.

The slackers are putting in around 10%, the worst players are around 100%.

This game doesn't take 100% of the concentration and effort of anyone to do well unless you are lacking in some areas. The only thing you really require is people that cared enough to learn their characters, that want to win, and who are willing to only glance at the television to see who won an Oscar instead of stare at it the entire time.

However I do expect them to pull up their socks if we wipe, don't look at a wipe as a loss of 20 minutes... Look at the combined loss, 54 people losing 20 minutes is around 18 hours. If you screw up and cost us a combined total of 18 hours? That's a huge waste of time, we could have built an orphanage for small children, fed a bunch of homeless people, or even played a game of Civilization 5. Think about what a loss that is and ask how important it is to try on raids.

I think all of this depends on the raid, as well. Are you doing your hundreth SL game of Clue or are you attempting Xorbb for the first time? Slacking in the former, where the worst case scenario is likely taking an extra two minutes to get loot that is going to largely rot, is obviously going to be much less detrimental than the later, where even the best case scenario is probably that the raid wipes, but you all learn a bit about the event and the longer you stay alive and the further you get determines how much you all learn.

I think it depends on your guild to be honest. If your guild has enough dps that mobs are melting and healing is thus made easy.. then slacking a little might be acceptable. If however, your guild is barely squeaking by and the clerics sometimes miss a heal causing tanks to die, and wipes occur a few times a week... it's really up to every person in the guild to make sure they are doing their best.

I think it's very telling of us personally though, if we think, should I be doing my best? I have to be careful here though because we start discussing philosophy and ethics instead of game play. But one has to ask the question.. is it ethical to slack just because you can? Or should you always give 100% of what you are capable at that moment. The person with the flu who shows up because the guild needs one more cleric to be able to attempt a new content, is likely not going to be at a 100% of their normal.. but shouldn't they be at 100% of their current ability? The same with everyone else.. if we are showing up to be carried.. are we really worthy of that raid slot?

In any kind of strategy based game whether it be EverQuest, Magic: the Gathering, Chess etc.; any play that is not the best possible play that you could make is a play mistake. Sure you might still win but then you are being rewarded for bad play which doesn't encourage you to do better in the future.

If you are using a fire pet instead of a water pet (on a raid that can utilize a water pet to its best effect, and fire pet to its worst) you are losing about 15k sustained dps from the pet alone, or more like 25k burst dps (and that's a conservative estimate). Multiply that by 30 similar minded DPS classes, and you have an INCREDIBLE loss of possible DPS, which means an INCREDIBLY tougher time healing, tanking, etc. Which means an INCREDIBLY tougher time winning an event.

I would group you with the same type of players like melee that just autoattack and don't use discs or do research to determine which discs/AA/spells should be used when, or don't try and coordinate their discs/buffs, or paladins that don't heal themselves, necros that refuse to use their epics or swap out spells during a raid, rangers that don't MGB Auspice, etc etc.

If your raid consists of 54 players that have the same type of attitude as you, I would be surprised if your guild has beat many RoF raids. If you have beat most ROF raids, I am sure that most in your guild do not have similar attitudes.

this is somethign that bugs me as far as the "try" factor. not everyoen knows all thesame tricks, but they can research and improve their tactics. they can try their hardest with what they do know and have, and things go a lot moresmoothly. many things can be done much better with everyone's attention even if its still 10x harder than it is for someone else. attention span means a lot more to those mid-tiers because theyre at a disadvantage in every other aspect usually. Control what is controllable, and every individual has the ability to control their own efforts even if they cant control the availability of the perfect class-mix and gear choices. Unfortunately morale goes a long way with this, as does communication of course. The more often you bang your head on something and fail due to the next guy not doing his part, or just simply not having the right mix or toons to start with, the less many people will push themselves, though some will push even more once they see the hill there is to climb. a $50 pair of socks if its the only pair of socks yo ucan get, is a lot tougher on a 10k a year earner than a 100k a year earner, but it's still needed. Whether you just giveu p and let yoru feet get frostbitten, or you scrounge and scrape to get that pair of socks whatever it takes...that depends on the person, but the more situations like this in a person's life the closer they will get to giving up, while the 100k a year guy never understands tahtstruggle and says what's so hard about buyinga pair of socks? they'reon ly 50bucks. Same goes for guilds, more success comes more morale and the good thigns that come with it, morefailures the harder it is to get that morale and push

Where did I say I use a fire pet on xorbb#2?
In fact, I went with an air pet - until we found out that water pet helps on Actinic fire phase.
And now that we know, on this event water pets will be mandatory.
Test, learn, improve.

I won't answer the rest of your posting - find out yourself, but thanks for judging my raid performance
on a few written words.