How important is it to play your best on a raid?

A very good example for a troll here. You have misread the posting totaly and mob-trolling a player which i personally do know probably better than all of you, and she barely makes mistakes. I dont know who you are, but i report your posting in any case.

She said she would allthough her preference personally is fire/air pet NEVER mess up the raid for others - means that in that case she uses the necessary water pet. Learn to read please before you put someone in a pocket you describe as clueless with the upcoming lines.

And to make the surprise complete, our guild has not only beaten a few raids in RoF. You know that obviously since you are referring to an event that requires a water pet, and not a firepet. That event is Xorbb#2, the forelast of all raids in RoF.

Stop jumping on persons by no reason with unlogic assumptions and mistaken information.

It's usually not important for everyone to play their best on every raid.

All you need is a rougly 3-group core that plays their hardest, the rest is just a filler.

Just a cog in the machine, baby.

Edit:
I don't consider following an emote to be playing your best. I consider it having a pulse.

Well, there we start. Following emotes is simply the base that qualifies you to fullfill the "mission" while you are playing your character to whatever his/her job in the raid force is. Not follwing emotes means that you are not qualified to accomplish the mission, whatever it is.

Know your character.
Know your class.
Know your target.
Know your tactic.

Thumbs up, m8.

100%?? 100 (not 90 or 110%, 100%?????).

A 100% player has 100% attendance. He might not be the highest DPS since maintaining aggro discipline might be more important than landing damage while the mob is being pulled, during initial aggro, or during tank switches.

In other words, metrics and during a raid "objective" performance reviews are bad leadership. They don't tell the whole story and for many people they destroy, not create motivation.

Give me a highish attendance player - do you really want to gear up 30% more players than your guild otherwise could? And deal with ring rust/unfamiliarity with events that the guild supposedly has mastered?

Cooperation - be a good follower, do what you are told without argument (proving relevant information is not argument).

Support your guild and your guildmates during raids and after raids. The team jacket ought not be hung up just because its not raid time. You guildmate > your alt, always.

Over the years I've seen some great players in every facet of the game, and showoff/hotdogs that are all flash and no team, and that guildmate who is on pain meds surrounded by pillows just so he can sit up and contribute....for one more month - if he gets lucky.

PEOPLE vary. They are not components that function perfectly every time in the Great Raid Machine or need replacement. In content intentionally tuned to define 95% of all players as bad - surprise, 95% of all players do look bad. In an event that's properly tuned for a large and not homogeneous market at least 50% of players look good, because sirs they are actually good.

As a manager I never used metrics (number of lines of code per day), never publicly provided "encouragement" to perform better, I didn't do performance reviews and gawd help the team member who thought it was his place to provide those services in my place.

People are expected to perform well. Therefore it's assumed that any room for improvement is not an indication of some kind of character flaw but rather something that can be worked on to make them better than the great they already are. You're an important member of our team George. How can we improve your DPS?

Without assisting team members with reaching their potential, criticism = sadism (Dad always told me I was worthless and I turned out well. I guess that's effective managment).

You don't get milk by telling the cow it's horrible and hitting it with a stick. OP has a lot to learn about team building.

yes and no. a well-played toon can still miss emotes if they're distracted. playing your best also includes giving the raid yoru attention not the game on tv heh

Just one more round of 10,000,000 before the pull!

Every guild has some martians on their roster. It's how you deal with them, and how everyone else plays, that matters. Effort is the big thing, but efficiency matters a lot too if you don't want to raid over 3 or so hours a night. I think, personally, efficiency is the most important factor in a raid guild. Clearing 3 or 4 targets in 3 hours is great. Clearing 8 or 9 targets in 3 hours is better though.

Every guild has a small handful of either bad players, or lazy players, or martians. Every guild has a bad night. We're all human.

I remember killing MOTG and Progenitor with 6 to 8 people back then. The trick was kiting until slow landed. Sleeper was released before we got enough to do warders. That's one of the many regrets I'll always have about EQ.

Camou posts "Know your character, know your class, etc". And on a previous response says essentiallly that "It is OK for a magician to use fire or air on raid events".

I do not know you personally, nor do I know Rashari. I can image you both are wonderful players, dedicated to the game and to the guild. But there is a contradiction when you say know your character/class and yet defend someone who is using a pet on raids that actually is not the best option for raids. And I am not speaking about Xorbb2, I speak in general.

A water pet simply does more DPS on raid targets than air or fire. Period. There are thousands of parses out there that prove this. A magician's role on raids is to maximize DPS. Period. We also cast mod rods every 15 minutes or so, or when necessary. Very rarely we are asked to off tank a mob, in which case earth is usually the best option with air a distant second. So if a magician is wanting to be the best at their core roles, they should be doing everything they can to do so. Not using water prevents that magician from maximizing their overall DPS potential.

I used to be guilded with a magician who would not use Clash of Many, a DD spell that casts a certain amount of spells based on how many pets are on a mob, which on majority of encounters is max pets. She would also not cast Ruthless Servant because it was "too much mana". These two spells are the two best DPS spells for a magician, and she never used them. This magician never made a top ten DPS parse, and was really a hindrrance to the guild because she made events longer, thus creating more chances for deaths and OOM and mistakes happening. This is what I was referring to with my original post- playing your best to help out your raid means (like Camou stated) knowing your class, character, target, tactics.

I do not think Nyrlem was trolling. I do not have any user either. But I think we are trying to illustrate the differences between a player that is doing everything possible to maximize their class... and a player that is trying but not necessarily doing everything they can to maximize their class... and those who are not trying, not paying attention, and are a hinderance to the raid.

I don't think most people need to play their best on raids. All raids are easy enough that it is not required.
People wanting to win parses will play their best. I would hope most of the clerics would play their best so tanks don't die. And I would hope tanks would play at least competently enough to not be killed but almost everyone else does not need to unless a class leader or raid leader will beep about it later.

Some guilds will "require" that certain min requirements are met such as healers keeping tanks up and dps in total being enough to beat bosses but there are no raids that actually require all 54 people playing their best.

Myself, I always play as best I can. A lot of it is knowing your class and maximizing what you can do with it which is not hard if you know what you are doing.

1. Very important. Being a bump on a log soaking up loot does nothing for me.

2. Somewhat important enough to be an annoyance on some nights. Not important enough to throw a hissy fit about it though.

I used to know many, many mages that used an earth pet on raid. They would lol at the thought of using the water pet because he didn't have a lot of HP to survive AEs and such....

/painful sigh

Some people are just.... not very good at EQ

Battleaxe-

Wait I have a lot to learn about team building??? Where on earth did you gather that insinuation/insult from???

I help give advice to fellow magicians on raids. We discuss strategies. I compliment players when they do well: on a DPS parse, keeping the group alive, being a great MA, quickly off tanking adds, etc. Just because I have met poor magicians in the past doesn't mean I am calling them out publically... I am sending tells asking what s/he did and what they can try to make it better.

I do not know who you are, but would like to know where you got my failures as a team builder are. And next time maybe seek first to understand than to be understood.

Yes, it is ok, when it fits into the upcoming events. Excuse me, i thought that it is normal to use the correct kind of pet on raid events usually or even no pet at all when the tactic requires that .... If you want to talk about which pet suits for what encounter or for your playstyle, go into caster forum, there are dozen of posts for that.

No, you dont know me for sure. It is embarassing for me that you even consider using a pet when its not allowed at all. I doubt that you know what you speak of or of the same topic at all.

Can you provide a link to such parses pls?
And no, a magicians role on raids is not to maximize DPS. A magicians role on a raid is that what the raid requires him to do. Sometimes it is DPS, sometimes it is add-tanking, sometimes it is debuffing, rebuffing and sometimes something else. A player that comes up with "I only do DPS as mage" will need definitely much more experience in raiding, and explains why you are considering at all to use the incorrect kind of pet ever. Once you joined a guild raiding end content they will teach you that, but it isnt a big issue at all until you will get used to it.

Ok, you again mix up a few things. Clash of many might have some rather limited uses on raids up to now, and maybe will now, as the pet push has been patched out become more important again, but the high time of this spell has ended over a year ago.

Every raid mage knows that you use servants best when you have a gift of mana. Else she was right: it costs much too much mana, and in fights that take longer than 7 minutes you are better waiting for a free spell. In bursts or burns below that time she was wrong. But only few fights have burn or bursts over a very short time at all. VoA and especially RoF raids have more complex scripts than just burn-till-down events.

He was trolling and was reported for. You are not trolling, you just have not the point of view of what raid mages need to do, or the guild you play in has some more or less archaic opinions of the use of mages. But DPS is a rather secondary element on raids. If something counts it is the damage done over the whole fight. I dont think we have too many in our guild watching TV or something. If ever one has been found doing so our raid leader was always kind enough to swap him out quickly as we have enough players waiting to get in and stay focused on the raid - that is in case he will not listen to the orders on TS.

Please tell me what a magician in a raid is for if not for DPS above all else (don't say mana rods). I certainly don't bring them along to tank adds, if that's the route that is being taken here -- that is what tank classes are for.

I tend to agree with Cicelee in that if you aren't maximizing your DPS then you are probably not playing as good as you could be, mages are a DPS class (right now, they happen to be one of the best). If you are using them as a tank class via their pet, then good for you...but to claim that is one of their main functions on a raid is beyond silly.

As far as raids that don't allow pets, I'm aware of only one and that is because the AE mechanic is broken/bugged/whatever.

What is magician role in a raid? Again: Fit into the role the raid requires him to do
- Damage (burst? burn? sustained long term low dps (balanced fights)?
- Add tanking or add catching?
- Main assist?Corpse dragging, rebuffing, debuffing, add debuffing, redebuffing jobs.....................
- Using special spells for certain purposes (CotH, short term dmg shields etc ..)
Whatever he can do skilled as player (the person behind the screen) and fitting into the abilties of his toon. And not necessarily in that particular order.

I also hate this discussion about pet tanking and that everybody automatically thinks when somebody writes " pet ..." it is about pet tanking raid mobs. I was in 3 top guilds on our server, and both guilds i have been in before used or tried to use that tactic. And it was never, because they couldnt beat it any other way, it was just more comfortable because of certain reasons, which i do not understand at all. But yes, if a pet can tank, why not try to find a tactic where you can use it without exploiting certain game mechanics that brought up all the discussion. And this is not to discredit the guilds i have been in before - all involved in that always preferred not to use it automatically or intentionally to exploit a game mechanic.

Not everyone using pets is automatically a cheater or exploiter. That generalisation of single incidents is what brings up stealth nerfs and discussion that could imbalance whole classes.

This can be said of every class though, for the most part. Assuming all your pieces are in play, a magician will only need to focus on DPS - that is the jist of what I was getting at. Does it work out like this all the time? Nope, but it's enough that it can be considered the majority.

As far as pets and all that nonsense, I wasn't implying anyone was cheating or exploiting. I was trying to add that some people might believe a mage's duty is to tank with his pet, but by all means that is not their main purpose on a raid.

no offense but this is the exact attitude i hate in a raider (not you but the attitude you're saying is ok to have) . ify ou dont feel it's your responsibility to do your best then dont come to a raid to waste other people's time. it's sadly somethign that happens all too often, moreso with as you say dps/support classes than the tanks and healers, but it happens everywhere. the problem is this: why should you put out half the effort for the same reward, why should you do less than you can jsut bc its not required to win the raid, why should everyone else do their best knowing that THEY have to to win the raid (tanks and healers) knowing fullwell that a lot of the dps feels they dont need to unless theyre competing for topslot in the parse? raiding is a team effort and anyone that doesnt feel they need to give as much effort or attention as the next guy doesnt deserve to be there. just doing the minimum is jsut doing the minimum and will never excel, nor will the raidforce if too many of its members have this attitude.

i love raiding but i hate lazy raiders that just dont care dont hvae any pride iin themselves to do the best they can do on a given night just bc it's not necessary to win. if everyone gives their best then a lot more can be done, period.

and thank you ronak for the nod toward efficiency, something many neglect or dont see the use of. this is same reason why everyone should be doing their best (not everyone is 100% all teh time if you'resick and at 50% then you should give 100% of that 50% if you're at raid, or dont come, but no one expects you to be at your best knowing you're sick) on any given night, so that the entire raid is at its best and can accomplish more in better time and thus do more things in a raidweek rather than be stuck working on or farming the same handful or stuff. it's frustrating to know yo ucan do twice as much if half the people would give 100% instead of 20% or less

This just smacks of lazyiness because you don't want to be bothered positioning the pet.

You can't really harp on about others not maximising when you're not.

The funny thing is you don't realise it and are trying to defend it.

This really evaluates the skill behind

Again: Stop judging other players overall raidperformance if you have never seen them in "action".
Where the hell did I harp on others, where the hell did I say "I will always use fire and air",
when the event mechanics require another pet (Xorbb#2 for example).
All I said is that I prefer air and fire pet, but not that I exclusively only use them.

None of you can judge by postings on a board.
Each guild is different. There is no "Pattern A" which is valid in every guild for every class.

If you think you know everything - congratulations. I myself still continue learning,
and still continue improving.

Have a nice and peaceful evening everyone.