How do you guys personally view Warriors ?

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Whulfgar, Sep 9, 2015.

  1. Gundolin Augur

    Sorry this is all way off topic but entertaining. By the way Whulfgar your links don't seem to support your claim. Are you reading them before you post?
  2. Jaylin Augur

    Come on... researching your claim is so last week. Posting random things, hoping no one else will bother to read them and just agree with you is the in thing to do
  3. Battleaxe Augur

    A tank is mobile armor and a howitzer, not just a movable wall.

    Did the original EverQuest design team understand that you can't put a punching bag in a game filled with powerful magic users and specialized fighters with special skills?

    https://www.everquest.com/classes
    "Warriors are the masters of armed combat and defense..."

    "and"
    "masters"
    120/100/80

    While the original warrior class in D&D was simply the least specialized set of classes in the Fighter archetype, good at physical combat and defense, and suitable for being an PC or NPC guard (the Mall cop of the Fighter classes) TSR came to its senses with the release of the 2nd Edition of the Player Handbook, Advanced D&D, and Complete Fighter's Handbook. They added specialization, combat skills, and styles (DW, 2H, and S&B - S&B is for mobile armor and a howitzer tanking BTW). They also mention legendary fighters and warrior generals. We were NOT to be a simple guard that existed so specialized fighters and casters could tear up content without being hurt.

    After a mediocre start did EQ designers get the memo and understand that Warriors shouldn't "shine shoes" any more? At Kunark release they did.

    Final Stand - design genius. Since Final Stand was most effective vs. high DI mobs (generally named and aggressive nuisance mobs) and had little effect vs. lower DI mobs, it delivered on...

    "...warriors are unmatched in their ability to survive the most brutal battles."

    without making us the only tank.

    It did however make us the Primary Tank (which we should be) raising the ire of knights who demanded that Final Stand be nerfed (it has been) or shared (it has been)

    Mighty Strike - OK, even though we were promised "...masters of armed combat and defense..." masters of armed combat OR defense beats masters of armed defense only.

    Despite getting some Tank Archetype related utility chiefly through procs it's been downhill ever since.
    Tank Parity (and knight Spellbook Superiority)
    The only tank without reasonable combat self HP restoration
    Proficiences
    400/80/100-75

    Warriors can tank multiple mobs. Does that sound like "...warriors are unmatched in their ability to survive the most brutal battles." to you?

    Devs broke faith.

    IMO one is foolish to play a Warrior if you don't raid.

    IMO the only reason to play a Warrior is to be the best meatshield vs. raid boss mobs. Meatshield, not tank.

    Hey, if carrying around a shinebox and shinning the shoes of specialized fighters, hybrids, and casters so they can tear up raid content without getting bad hurt appeals to you go for it. Whoa Chuck Wepner, The Bleeder from Bayonne sure can take a beating (without hitting back worth beans). Yep, he's uber.

    Being a punching bag with a Nerf(tm) sword really doesn't appeal to me but I don't run things and after 16 years it's pretty much all I know. I suppose if DBG doesn't make moving mobs and positioning more difficult at least the meatshield part is sort of OK.
    Whulfgar likes this.
  4. Whulfgar Augur

  5. Whulfgar Augur

    But thats how European warriors were.
  6. Zarakii Augur

    kickin and taken names (leveling one myself right now for off nights and having a blast at 94 already!)
    Whulfgar likes this.
  7. Battleaxe Augur

    Not to go into great detail, but
    Most European wars were fought in formation prior to the Roman era by spear/sword wielding shield using fighters and skirmishers who for all practical purposes threw rocks.

    While War Dogs, Boars, Elephants, and chariots were used for awhile these proved to be ineffective.

    The mature form became
    central battle group with cannon fodder, dismounted cavalry/heavily armored fighters behind them and bowmen taking refuge behind pavises and stakes. Mounted battle leadership and their personal protectors.

    left and right wing fighters, skirmishers, and cavalry.

    You attempted to break the middle with your armored shock troops overrunning the protections of the bowmen while protecting your flanks/attempting to outmanuver either wing of your opponent rolling them up into a ball which could not be easily defended.

    Said simply it was rock, paper, scissors where sometimes the bowmen got dug in, sometimes they got slaughtered, sometimes cavalry broke a wing or even the center, sometimes the central battle group broke the center, killed the opponent's leadership, and the battle was over.

    It's not accurate to picture the heavily armored portions of the central battle group as a wall. They were, after usually mounted and often lingering in the rear nobility, the most respected and feared killers on the field.

    IF irregular cannon fodder or crossbowmen failed to do their job it wasn't uncommon for the heavily armored portions of the central battle group to (rather easily) kill them as they advanced on the opponent.

    The real world and fantasy legacy of the heavily armored warrior is professional killer, not shoe shine boy.
  8. Triconix Augur

    No, you see them as half naked guys running around with wood shields, spears, atlatls, and bows who nearly died off from bacteria and disease brought over from European domesticated animals. In which case, the warrior class is totally screwed next expansion as it's primarily dealing with disease :eek:

    ;)
  9. Whulfgar Augur

    Interesting twist you put there ..

    ;)
  10. Jaylin Augur

    I'm sorry... But how is this thread even still going?
    Whulfgar likes this.
  11. Triconix Augur

    Just stating fact!
  12. Whulfgar Augur

    Pushing incorrect information does not make it factual.

    Just saying ..
  13. Whulfgar Augur

    The indigenous Native American population was decimated by diseases brought along by the European settlers. Diseases like the plague, chicken pox, influenza, measles, scarlet fever, smallpox,tuberculosis, and whooping cough.
  14. Whulfgar Augur

    Notice, Settlers, not in your words "from European domesticated animals."
  15. Triconix Augur

    My oh my, you sure don't know Native American history. You should probably read Guns, Germs, and Steel (a Pulitzer Prize winning book) by Jared Diamond. His evidence about domesticated animals being one of the primary reasons why the Native American population not only died off, but died off with such rapidity is one of the most widely accepted historical analyses. It's a pretty simple and well structured theory. The lack of exposure to domesticated animals left the Native American population vulnerable to many household diseases in Europe. It's a very insightful book, maybe you'd learn a thing or two!

    But since you're so infatuated with online material here you go:
    http://www.pbs.org/gunsgermssteel/variables/smallpox.html

    "So where does this deadly disease come from, and why was it linked to Europeans?

    For thousands of years, the people of Eurasia lived in close proximity to the largest
    variety of domesticated mammals in the world – eating, drinking, and breathing in the germs these animals bore. Over time, animal infections crossed species, evolving into new strains which became deadly to man. Diseases like smallpox, influenza and measles were in fact the deadly inheritance of the Eurasian farming tradition – the product of thousands of years spent farming livestock.

    These epidemic Eurasian diseases flourished in dense communities and tended to explode in sudden, overwhelming spates of infection and death. Transmitted via coughing, sneezing and tactile infection, they wreaked devastation throughout Eurasian history – and in the era before antibiotics, thousands died."


    You want facts, I got facts :D