Frenzied vs Twisted Chance

Discussion in 'Melee' started by Bealum, Mar 18, 2020.

  1. Bealum New Member

    Some debate with friends, yes I know I can use both in a full burn but if the fight lasts 30 seconds, whats the preferred disc for highest dps? I was thinking frenzied ?
  2. Syylke_EMarr Augur

    Unless something has changed, I believe it's Twisted for max DPS on a short burn. Though there may be an element of expected aDPS that comes into play with that.
  3. Bealum New Member

    Thanks, was hoping a higher end rogue would respond I see you're 115, so next question ive been looking at higher level AAs and Discs so my question is
    does Rogues Fury, Destructive Glyph AND Dissident all stack?! or should I be cycling them when Fury ends then hit Glyph etc?
  4. Szilent Augur

    they do. Also Rake's Rampage.

    Rogue's Fury doesn't stack with Knifeplay / Executioner

    Destructive Glyph doesn't stack with Shm Ruchu. If you're grouped with Shm, then you want Glyph to go in the 2 minute gap between Ruchu & the next Ruchu

    Dissident is it's own whole thing. I try to line it up with Twisted and then Razor in my 10 minute rotation
    Syylke_EMarr likes this.
  5. Syylke_EMarr Augur

    To be fair, my rogue is only an alt so I'm not nearly as experienced as a main would be. (and he's been kind of shelved while I work on the SK/Bard more at the moment)
  6. Bealum New Member

    Sweet thanks! I assume you meant Focused Rakes ? Rakes Ramp is an aoe correct?
  7. Bealum New Member

    :) No problem I appreciate the info
  8. Szilent Augur

    free damage on adds if they're not needing to be mezzed :)
  9. Bealum New Member

    Yeah just sucks they nerfed that damage :(
  10. Szilent Augur


    but it was "a bit" busted in previous form :p
    Bahdah likes this.
  11. Bahdah Augur

    I'd make a burn key - I personally use Frenzied to start off with because you'd want to unload those bs' as fast as possible, of course you're going to get frenzied and twisted under RF no problem.. but the point is to unload heavy dmg with the synergy you have and bs' is where we are at. -

    My hotkey:
    /disc frenzied
    /alt act 1410 (third spire/spire of the rake)
    /disc dissident
    /alt act 3514 (rogues fury)
    /useitem 17 (breastplate)
    rakes rampage (situational with focused) - as Szilent mentioned you want those adds getting a dab too, of course it was nerfed.

    you'll want to attempt staggering Glyph, but we have a hard time not following that lol (well me, im not speaking for others)

    of course you have your miscellaneous' Pinpoint and mark which is a bonus for our backstabs, but if you're familiar with those we dont have to get into them.

    I follow the burn with Twisted > Ragged (you'll have at least 20? 25? secs of RF) > Knifeplay (doesn't stack with RF and you'll have executioners, weapons and chelicerae discs to fill in, as a rogue you should almost always be under a disc.

    You'll want to remember also Dissident will be up before burns are back up - you will typically have another dissident for the end of Knifeplay - i'd hit that before your burn cooldown gets too low because it will be up again for another burn - BUT like i said keep an eye out on burns, if you're down to 4m30ish on burns dont bother hitting it as it wont be up on time for next burn.
  12. Belexes Augur

    For an everything but the kitchen sink burn, I do something similar to Bahdah. I have a burn key for Spire, RF, Frenzied, Focused Rake's Rampage. I can change the focused to non focused really quickly in button if needed.

    I click breastplate, intimidate, epic 2.0 at the same time as well as Drachnid Blade and Dissident, Naive Mark. Would also start the burn with Pinpoint on. If you are in raid, this might be a rotation thing among rogues.

    Of course I am spamming Intimidate, Bushwhack, Cloaked Blade, BlitzStrike etc. If not in raid, spam all the dot buttons since I don't have to worry about debuff slots. I also spam Cozen to help out the tank when grouping. Also Conditioned Reflexes. I have a GINA trigger for it so I know when I get hit and it activates. I will refresh it. I always keep that up for raids and group. Usually only get whacked once before moving to the next on hate list.

    Once Frenzied wears off, I click on Twisted Chance. Once that wears off, then Knifeplay. If Knife won't go, then Ragged.

    After Ragged/Knife, click the one you haven't used yet and use your dissident like Bahdah said. Then I would use Executioners and the other discs after that.

    If burns come up while on Knife, just hit your burn key and start over. It will remove Knife and put Frenzied on.

    I can't comment too much on raiding as I am not that great of a raider.
  13. Crillan New Member

    I've always been under the impression that Twisted Chance is much better when you have a bard. I usually lead with Frenzied if no bard, Twisted if I have a bard. I haven't actually parsed, but this is what others have told me.
  14. Bealum New Member

    I tried TC with a bard in group and I got a much higher parse, I assumed a faster Backstab would have been best, ill have to keep testing but so far you are correct.
  15. Vythika New Member

    If you take the time to parse it out. Twisted will beat Frenzied pretty much every time. Especially with ADPS

    Twisted + Spire + Rampage + Scorpikis + BP all share 10m timers
    Combine that burn with Dissident + Dim Witted Mark + Shadow's Flanking (5m timers)
    Follow up with pinpoint + epic (2.5m timers)

    If you see the pattern here you can rotate these discs immediately on their timers to all be back up with your main burn.

    But anyway for your 30s burn fights. Twisted.
  16. Szilent Augur

    I run Drachnid (née Skorpikis) along with Chelicerae, between the Knifeplays
  17. MagicMysteryTour New Member

    Loaded question. How do pure melee, Rogue-Berserker-Monk, rank as of ToV everything being equal?

    Imagine it is still
  18. Bealum New Member

    Excellent thank you

    One more question but W T F blocks Focused Ramp and Spire? the last raid i went on when i hit burn those 2 would not activate and i kept getting a blocked message, what could possibly block OUR burns?

    Is it similar to that SK spell that blocks burnout for mage pets? i had to block that soon as i saw it,i checked effects and no way that SK spell is better for my pet than burnout but yet it overwrote burnout and wouldn't let me recast it until i blocked SK spell, forgot name though ill have to look it up in blocked list

    Edit: SK Spell Line "Torrent of XXX recourse" is the one that overwrites mage pet burnout, uh AC 135 and that's ALL vs the stats for burnout? sorry no thanks.
  19. Derka Augur

    Going to go out on a limb here, do those abilities go in buff window? Maybe you are at your max and blocking your own stuff from landing.

    EDIT: Use gamparse to search your log for that fight to see what the block text was.
    Szilent likes this.
  20. Bealum New Member

    i don't think but then again never know so ill have to check, i don't usually have those buffer buffs on during raids but it was pretty late and maybe that was the problem! i just have to see because ive never had that issue happen before and have raided the same content many times with the same guild/same people so i cant imagine i got additional buffs that ive never gotten before in like months, first time it happened and twice in same night.

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