I'm not creating a hyperbole when I say that the zerker and rogue classes are lagging significantly behind. That is a fact. It is not in any way hyperbolic to say that zerkers cannot use discs that root and blind us on most raid mobs. That is a fact. I am not being hyperbolic when I say that zerkers have little utility compared to most classes (no reliable heals, no reliable pulling skills, no ports, no invis, etc). That is a fact. I am not being hyperbolic when I say that over-nerfing a class causes frustration amongst players in said class. A percentage of the more passionate ones will spout off on the boards. That is a fact. Speaking personally, I didn't cherry pick my parses. I parsed over a period of weeks, watching my average dps slowly rise with gear/aa upgrades. I do on average 18-19k dps on RoF t1 trash mobs when mostly raid buffed and not discing. That is a fact. It only presents one set of data, but it's still a fair representation of a molo'ing raid geared zerker. Over the years I've noticed how easy it is for someone of another class to dismiss an unfair nerf. That is a fact. Some people here claim that certain zerkers are hurting our cause, but those same people take enjoyment out of further damaging our cause. I would really appreciate the zerker and rogue classes being re-evaluated, because a class with little utility should be competitive in the DPS department. I'm fine with not being the sustained DPS kings. However our sustained DPS is in sad shape. I do not wish for nerfs to other classes. However I am truly in disagreement to the point of frustration of this current "vision" for zerkers. We are broken.
OK, that was MY contribution, and no im not an eq god, know all the tricks, if you could contribute something other than critisizm and speculation that would be awsome, maybe u have better parces, but i just quickly looked up some parces in my logs and there they are, would love if played a roll, instead of the peanut gallery
thats not a no burn parce by the zerker, at that dps, and yet that other dps class at the top, tripped his dps. (not naming classes of others because its not important, thats not what this is about)
Also, do u want no support? like strip all buffs? want me , in the group parce i took, to turn the bard songs off? what do u think those 2 things will do the the mele dps? want me to strip both toons naked,... see that dps? those are 2 scenarios, i dont know what "perfect scenario" you want, but please let me know, and i will try to recreate it. Forget rangers, this is not the place for u to place ur grevinces. Besides u have alot more abilities than a zerker, u should not parce like them. and idk how u play ur ranger, but in the guild iwas in in voa, they were owning parces, every time.
A bigger issue I've seen is certain posts will start very constructive, but randomly degenerate into a handful of posters proverbially slinging poop all over the walls, themselves and each other. This has typically resulted in the thread being locked, which is infuriating to the posters who actually contribute to constructive discussion. I propose an alternative: Whenever there is an "undesirable" post in a thread, the moderation deletes the post and PM's the poster with the reason for the delete. When a post is deleted in this manner, the poster is then "banned" from posting in that particular thread for a period of time (tbd by mods) This carries the following benefits: 1. Posters who do bad things are afforded the opportunity to learn from their mistakes 2. Moderating of threads becomes easier when threads don't have to be 'baby-sat'. 3. Constructive discussion can continue without undesirable elements or thread-locks.
I agree with the idealistic view of providing feedback in the manner you suggest. However, from my point of view as a regular player, things seem to work in the exact opposite as you suggest they do. Maybe it is simply just my viewpoint, maybe not. I would ask that you try and forget, as best you can, the things that you know from working for SoE and tour the boards as if you were only a paying subscriber. Then look at the different threads and suggestions from players and tell me if you still find "Hyperbole pretty much ensures that Devs aren't going to read a particular thread" to be true. To give a specific example as to why I find this and other similar idea's to be to the contrary you need to look no further than this thread and your reply in it. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate that you did indeed post in this thread, it just happens to support my view.
Xulore described our DPS very rightfully. I still stand by what i have said earlier, typically we hit between 75 - 125K on a 1 min parse, i know we can hit as high as 160K (very rarely and with full support, rooted etc). The majority of parses are not 1 min parses. and already a 90 sec parse hitting 80K is pretty good for a berserker, even if rooted (this is probably a tiny bit higher after last patch - i quit my berserker temporary before that). My comments however are still up to date as i view alot of parses from fellow EQers. I can think of alot of members that want to contribute parses, even other melees classes i know. I will be sending non cherry picked parses from events to you Piestro. You can then do with what you want, but then you have some data atleast. Mind you necros are not parsed rightly atm. so the parses will show nothing about the current state of melees vs. this specific class. I think you will find this about phenomenon about the berserker class: We have huge variance in the numbers we put out, more so than any other class. both because of burn ending prematurely, being very support dependent and last but not least root / non root. Our dps dice: 200 - 1000 other dps class dice: 1000 - 1200. That is the current state. When we are lucky on our dice we cannot hit the bottom range of the rng of a wizard. I would almost claim that we cannot hit hte bottom range of a rng of a wizard that have no support (except auspice, which is TGBed). If this is true (which it is), dont you agree piestro that our class needs to be looked at?
I think a lot of the posts in the threads that deter the devs are other classes posting here saying your dumb you don't need a fix, and then the class gets defensive because they know they do need a fix. And from there it just snowballs. It would help a lot to create thread with highlighted areas and pray no other classes try and add their misguided input. Another thing that we did as monks, not sure if it made a difference was I sent 2 devs a message which ill let remain nameless unless u wanna send me a tell or something. But I got those 2 devs in the message and then added 4 other monks I believe it was. And a convo was started with issues we had and that information was forwarded to the devs that implement the changes. The convo in the message was kept very civil and gave direct concerns and not anything such as x class is better we don't like that. Not sure if that helped us as monks or not but you can see how after years of stagnation and being the bottom of the totem pole for dps issues were back in line where we should be. So maybe its worth a shot for your zerker issues
that is a great suggestion Sojuu, i am sure Berserkers in the community also are happy that you are supportive of us - it seems more legit when a monk writes here, than if any of us does. I will start off with sending parses so we got some data to talk from, but i would love to have some of our top berserkers talk to developers.
Push will never be considered on a dummy though and rogues pay more than any other classes the high price with push. Nothing can replace real condition parses because we dont play With robots sometimes game is lagging‚ sometimes helpers suck or die etc...
I beleive a class that needs to be rooted or blind pays more Songsa ;-)... If we aren't balanced around that, then i think you pay sligthly more. But then we could say you dont have endurance problems, are somewhat less support dependent (but still hugely compared to pretty much every other class). But we didn't wanna get into a mud fight again with other classes. We hope to get attention to our issues atm. Actually after thinking it through i dont even think you would pay more for push than we do. you got 50 / 50 damage from auto attack and skills. we are 80% auto attack. so push hurts us more... But again, lets not discuss this, it will mud it further.
Was not to compare/ start a fight between ber/rog, i was just commenting Brogett idea to post dummy parses. It cant be a solution for bers or rogues as it didnt take real fight conditions into consideration. btw rogues are not 50/50 dmg/skills, we are at 80-90% melee dmg + backstab (that is very dependant on the push) and 10-20% non melee + dots. Thats a bit different. Push is bad basically for every melee class, a bit less for monks as they have no drawbacks for their dps, but for rogues (backstab + massive strikes + new lethality procs from backstab) and bers (root + blind needed to max dps) it changes ideal good dummy parses to sometimes awful real parses.
Ah yes, then i agree. Dummy parses aren't useful. I dont think its used by devs atm. anyway (not that i know). I know you parse Songsa, if you sent unedited parses to devs of events. combined as well as burns, that would be fairly representative of everyone except necros. I cant remember what RF's stance on this is, but i think it would help all melee classes as RF is a pretty high level raiding guild and have been in top 5 for almost all expansions.
