Just want to post this so there are 2 posted, so they dont miss it, because the zerker class is in a ditch on the side of the road, as to where it should be
Good initiative. I think all berserkers want a constructive discussion with developers, but that it has been going for some time now with no real consideration of what we bring to them have been a bit disheartening. I bet though that if developers would engage beserkers about the issues at hand, i am sure they would be able to and willing to in a friendly matter give solutions that aren't broken. I think its evidently from former discussions with developers and our own reporting of bug flurry etc. that we can be trusted not to push our own agenda too far. A respons from a developer would be gold, we feel like we haven't been heard.
I had a post, but what's the point they wont change make new stuff to address the issue even if they believe it to be true they would just wait for when they release new AAs/Spells to address it. My advice send PMs argue your point in private or you'll just get replies from people in other classes. Say what you have to say in a PM and just wait until the beta where aristo will just ignore us and our only hope is elidroth.
I have PMed devs, saying that berserkers would love to make a case and if they would be willing to engage in a talk with us, and given my outcries this could be with or without me, i would in the case they would listen however be constructive without complaining. This was before i went really bonus on boards - no reply... Also PMed parse data to several devs. I have 1 respons from a dev so far, being hey i was on vacation, thats why i didnt reply. Then no reply. I know they have a lot of work to do, but this should be their priority as developers.
/gsay Dain Frostreaver IV in 57s, 49075k @860966dps --- Not a zerker 8454k @159514dps (17.23%) --- not a zerker + pets 4977k @92170dps (10.14%) --- Not a zerker+ pets 4444k @79358dps (9.06%) --- Not a zerker 4397k @84558dps (8.96%) --- not a zerker + pets 4374k @78108dps (8.91%) --- Not a zerker + pets 3114k @74141dps (6.35%) --- ZERKER ZERKER : 2982k @53255dps (6.08%) --- --- ROG 1974k @36562dps (4.02%) --- ROG 1757k @31379dps (3.58%) 160k for one dps class? that dosent need to be blind/rooted/snared/under 90%, dosent need to be on the mob, losing dps to push , just needs LOS ... but for the truely PURE dps class , 53k in full raid gear? i called sony, they want pure data, there is one contribution
/gsay A storm of light and darkness in 47s, 1530k @32545dps --- MAGEt + pets 1024k @23262dps (66.91%) --- Zerker 317k @17627dps (20.74%) k this is a group geared mage vs a zeker with RoF ferocity focus , and an RoF raid wheapon, with best aug in game 235 heroic str 246 heroic dex, (it aint much but, for a turely pure dps class, should be doing better than that) (his burn smokes mine too, isnt reliant on buffs for that parce either)(had a bard in group, and had unity on zerker, haste, clicies ect)
These parses show what some others are capable of, quite obviously, but it doesn't show what ber or rog are capable of. I fully agree that both classes need substantial boosts, but these parses don't really help further to cause much I think. Maybe something in a controlled environment?
Also your parses leave much data out and make them useless. The mage doing 66.9% of the dmg, and the zerker only doing 20.74, with the combined only being at 32k dps. If you look at the individuals they should equal 40k dps. That means there is some back data that is missing (time on mob) from each class. Please post parses with full data, ones like that are worse than useless, they are misleading.
As long as we're talking about the dependence on support classes, I'd wager that if you compared Berserkers to all of the other DPS classes (hybrids included) without support they would be either at the bottom or very near it.
Zerkers need love. Fights are longer, which hurts zerkers worse than a lot of other classes. The fact that paladins can do 60-70% of a zerker's dps on a "burn" fight where the zerker is in a full support group and the paladin is in a tank group says that zerker dps is not where it should be. Wizards are blowing them away badly.
Possibly, but that's an entirely different argument was all I was trying to imply. I know that rangers need by far the most support as we also need 2 rangers on top of everything else anyone else wants or needs, and it's terrible. We all definitely should push to reduce this a large amount, I'm more than willing to give something like 20% of what I can do to another class, but it's more like 2/3rds or 1/2 right now and that's utter rubbish. If you guys want to discuss that we can, but I assume this is best done in a thread specifically about that which addresses each and every class. But when comparing max potential for everyone it's unfair to not look at a class with full support. At least in my opinion.
True story. Throwing up parses like that if anything will only hurt the zerker cause. 100% guarantee that while they might not show up on this thread, the devs have probably gotten 10 cherry picked parses PMed of zerkers smashing everyone when they had full support/burning and other did not/were not from other DPS classes that have seen this thread.
We won't get any response or changes until Tier 4 is out and they see where we are after we have new weapons. I'm sure they believe Tier 4 2handers will fix the issue. This is the bad part of stagnated content releases. Melee wait 9 months for real weapon upgrades while everyone else gets them right away.
Devs dont like critic. its a human thing. defense mechanism. Like when a warrior brought up the issue about knights tanking Raid bosses (paladins). and Aristo says, yeah i guess in the high level guilds even knights can tank raid bosses, that would be funny for you to try on the alt night of raiding. Basically saying they raid all the time and that they are so heavily geared that it doesnt matter. Which is not true when a new expansion comes out and they do this right away, as they have been in ROF / SOF... Aristo Casts - Elbalmers carapace. (Absorbs 1000 points of criticism).
This is a case of bad zerkers more then anything, tbh. No fix for being bad at your class. Bad rogues too.
May also be that they used discs at another stage (was this dain only, or dain + dragon?) or that they have no support, but I agree it's not a good parse to talk around. Also Hatsee - rangers aren't the only ones in that boat. My guild has highly variable attendance of support classes so I get a lot of experience of being both with and without full support. It's pretty clear that at least 50% of my burn dps comes from the group environment - possibly as much as 60%. Sustained it's less significant of course.
I'm pretty sure you are referring to my quote, although I believe I suggested they try having a non tank tank raid bosses. The last couple months it's been in vogue on the EQ forums to complain vociferously in the hopes of getting changes made to a particular class. If you read the forums for the last month, you'll note a commonality of posts of this type. I'm not saying don't bring up your issues, but please try to avoid significant amounts of hyperbole. Changes aren't made based on posts on the forums. I know, I sit through these discussions with an occasional contribution. Changes are made after Devs do research into the actual numbers and decide that the changes needed to be made. People can sometimes convince Devs to look at a particular class with well written and reasoned posts. Hyperbole pretty much ensures that Devs aren't going to read a particular thread.
How can we provide meaningful evidence piestro that our class is having problems? I Would love to engage with a dev and help them get things right. The worst part for me is not knowing if the devs see what i see on each raid i attend and in many group scenarios.
I thikn key is full information. List raid groups and explain if there are any mitigating circumstances. (Eg had shaman, but they sucked and clicked epic 2 min into fight; bard died; rog didn't have disc up due to using on earlier phase; necro used 7th; etc). If we get sensible parses, and lots of them, a pattern can emerge. *WE* know the pattern exists as players, but it's up to us to put it forward in a logical way without rhetoric and hyperbole as Piestro explains. Alternatively we can do things like dummy parses. It's not ideal, but if you show the parse from perfect group and full ADPS running and then the same toon parse with none of that and no discs running then you can get an estimate of the dps drop. Let's say it's 5 fold. Then it's quite easy to estimatre the total combined dps and how it drops by adding 1 min, 2 mins, 3 mins, etc. It's not the same as raid parses and some things break it (procs never dropping etc), but it's a starting point. Right now I'd say the biggest issue is dps drop off. Wiz don't seem to drop THAT much after their burn while rog/ber simply plumet like a stone.
