Considering a return. Good source for general information / 6 box ?

Discussion in 'The Newbie Zone' started by Agonydox1, Mar 24, 2017.

  1. Agonydox1 New Member

    Is there an abundance of group content ? specifically, can you play in a casual manner and have plenty of single group content, to both enjoy and gear up utilizing ?

    What are good options for group geared classes? I would look at a tank for a main. Assuming you could play all classes to their best, which group geared classes offer the best dps ? is mez or a dedicated puller still necessary ? Do you still need a dedicated slower? if so, which is the best option ?
  2. Elsewhere Elder

    As far as group composition is concerned, as long as you cover certain aspects of the game, the classes are largely down to personal preference.

    Tank of your choice
    Puller able to pull singles reliably.
    Slower/buffer/healer
    DPS, so you/mobs don't die of boredom
    Evac if it all goes south.
    Snare
    Stuns for casters (CH or Gating mobs can be a pain later on)

    Some people like their SK tank on snare duty, some people like a Druid or Necro to do it. It really doesn't matter as long as someone has it covered. For example, I don't like Necros in fast-killing group situations, prefer a Paladin tank, so I use Druid for snare duty.

    A few general points:
    Keep to 1 or 2 melee MAX, getting "your target is out of range" means you do zero DPS for that time.
    It is MUCH easier to have a great puller, getting singles than having to CC with 3-4 inc.
    Having classes which can operate efficiently with minimal keypresses are good. (Pet classes, casters and Priests)

    My personal preference would be:
    Paladin - Because I like the class and which Tank class you have doesn't matter too much.
    Shaman - Slows - Buffs/DeBuffs - Heals - High Flexibility
    Druid - Heals - Evacs - Buffs - Snare - General utility/Flexibility
    Magician x2. Easy to box, great DPS, Stuns for casters. Nukes if you need a mob dead NOW.
    Bard - Not a huge Bard fan myself, but are arguably one of the best pullers classes, but also gives much more utility/flexibility.

    This 6 group, covers all the basics, while most of the classes are single button press classes on inc. (/assist tank, /Pet attack, Nuke/Dot/Heal/Slow as required). ~80% of your screen time will be on your MT with ~10% being on your puller.

    Some people swear by CC, I personally don't. IMO pulling singles is much more important than trying to lock down 3 adds. All the time you are pressing buttons on your Chanter/Bard, you are doing NOTHING with your other 5 classes. If you really pull 4-5, that is what the EVAC spells are for. 1-2 you can burn down with Mage Nukes or pet-offtank or root park.

    TDLR - Don't focus too much on what is "best" - play classes you enjoy as long as you have the bases covered.
    Felicite, Bella222 and IblisTheMage like this.
  3. Agonydox1 New Member

    The main issue is being so out of touch with the game, hard to consider what is neccesary
    I should ask a few more direct questions. Tank, I'll likely do a war or paladin as a main
    Are there plenty of options and opportunities for group content ? Assuming group gear
    My 2nd would be a healer, are clerics still the only option ?
    My 3rd a melee DPs, with group gear which is best?
    4th a slower. Which slowing class offers the best overall utility ? Are bards viable ? Or do you still need a shamaan / enchanter
    5th I assumed a mage, for coth when moving.
    6th set on a wizard, I cannot imagine evac and ports are not useful.
  4. Elsewhere Elder

    2) Both Druids and Shaman get good enough heals for group content, so you are not tied strictly to Cleric for healing. If you went with Druid, he also covers Evac, ports and more importantly Snare.

    3) All of the relevant classes can supply melee DPS which will be fine for group content. Again, asking what is "best" changes over time. Every few months, some classes get a large buff/nerf which changes how they perform, so what is best now is not really important as it will probably be different in 9/12/18 months time.

    For group content, you don't NEED best, you just need good enough.

    4) I wouldn't like to rely on Bards for slow. Not that they cant, but it isn't really the "fire and forget" that a Shaman/BST/Chanter can do. Shaman would be my pick, but you can also combine the Melee DPS role with slower if you went with BST.
    IblisTheMage likes this.
  5. IblisTheMage Augur

    For tools you could look at Gamparse, GINA, and IS Boxer.

    Note that melee dps will require repositioning. Since fights are faster than in the old days, it will amount to quite a bit, if you have several toons.
  6. Bella222 Elder

    Which classes are the great pullers that pull singles reliably? Noob needing puller here.
  7. Elsewhere Elder

    There are multiple ways to split mobs but the 2 most common ones are Pacify and Feign Death.

    Pacify type spells are cast on the mob, and reduces its aggro and/or social radius. This means when you pull his friend, the assist radii do not overlap, and you only get 1. Clerics/Chanters get this in spell form, Paladins get a lower version but have a notable gap between 55-85 where they get nothing. Rangers and Druids get an outdoor only version. Monks also get a set of abilities that do this, the Phantom line.

    Downside is that the spell can get critically resisted and you get all of the mobs. (only on crit resist, not just normal resists)

    Feign pulling typically involves pulling multiples, falling over FD half way back to camp. The mobs stand there looking confused and eventually start walking back to their reset points. The idea is that they don't start walking back at the same time, so if one does, you can tag the other once they are far enough apart. (not going into sneak mechanics here)

    The downside is that it can sometimes take a while if the mobs are not co-operating and you need some space which dungeons sometimes don't give you. Necros have FD, but are usually considered to fragile. SK's also have it, and Monks have it, yet also have the HP to live through a few hits, making them good pullers.

    Bards are widely regarded alongside Monks as fantastic pullers as they have so many options open to them. They have a lull song, for short duration Pacify, but most importantly, at level 63, they get an AA called Fading Memories.

    Fading Memories (FM/Fade) is an AA with a mechanic which wipes you from all mobs hate-lists and makes you invisible. It has a 1 second re-use timer and is always successful. It is this AA combined with a Bard's utility which makes them such great pullers.

    Obviously, there are many more intricacies at play here, and more ways to split pairs of mobs, but that is about as condensded as it gets. There are some other classes which get some versions of Fade, but not in quite the same way or efficiency for pulling.

    TLDR - Bards/Monks are fantastic pullers - Pacify/FD classes have some useful splitting abilities but are not as good as Bards/Monks.
  8. Chaosflux Augur

    After level 85 you shouldn't ever need to split a camp if you have a tank and healer in a group together, especially since by that point bards (easiest box in game) have AE mez and all tanks have defensive proficiency, and zone design from that point forward is pretty simplistic and friendly for how many mobs comes at once.

    You shouldn't ever need more than 1 priest in a group either. Especially of the tank is a paladin.

    Tank/healer/enc or bard + pick 3 dps classes (wizards and mages box better than most other options)
  9. IblisTheMage Augur

    Personally I really like having an enchanter in my box setup, you can pull/split/CC whatever you want, as well as recouperate from a bad pull with a gazilion mobs in camp. They give most to caster-heavy groups.
  10. Tucoh Augur

  11. Tucoh Augur

    To answer your questions directly. I box a war/bard/mage and all my advice is for level 105:
    1. There's a tremendous amount of group content. CoTF, TDS, TBM and EoK are very relevant and represent hundreds of hours of good content. With a multi-box team you can do this casually. EoK group gear is amazing (it's roughly on par with the previous expansion's raid gear).
    2. There's a lot of good options, but the key elements of a group are tanking, healing, DPS, ADPS, tracking and movement. Right now tank classes (war/sk/pal) are OP. SKs are the best at group content, but warriors are generally the best in boxed groups because they require fewer APM to be great tanks. Paladins aren't in the same tier as war/sk.
    3. Generally, the DPS ranking for groups is somewhere around Berserker > wizard > rogue > war > sk > ranger > necro > mage > beastlord/monk. Of those, ranger, wiz and mage are the easiest to box.
    4. Once you've got a geared tank, you don't need to pull singles and it's even undesirable if you have AE DPS abilities. Even the tank's riposte in 2H mode contributes quite a bit of DPS if you've got 3-4 mobs in the camp. I don't bother mezzing and just DPS everything down. With good healing (from 2 healer mercs or one dedicated healer) a group geared warrior can tank 8+ EoK mobs long enough to kill everything by popping their cooldowns.

    However, I do enjoy my bard's pulling skills when I see a named mob on track on the other side of the dungeon and I have to pull it passed 20+ mobs I don't want to kill.
    5. Slow is pretty terrible now in comparison to the good ol' days, I don't understand it but it I parsed my bard's requiem of time slow (75% slow) as reducing mob strike speed by 17%. I don't even bother slowing non-named mobs.

    My general advice:
    A. Reconsider whether you want to six box. You'll probably be faster three boxing.
    B. Pick either SK/War for your tank.
    C. Pick either Enchanter or bard for your ADPS. I prefer bard for selos/track/pulling, and I can get a lot of enchanter's ADPS via a buff bot.
    D. Seriously consider whether you want to do the healing vs use cleric mercs. They aren't as good as real healers but cleric mercs can help you do all modern content except a couple TBM missions, and it's a lot less responsibility if you delegate it to mercs.
    E. Pick wizard or ranger for DPS. Mages aren't in a good state right now, and wiz/rng are easiest to box. The one big upside for mages is that you can lean on their pet to tank while your boxed tank is getting geared (though a tank merc can too probably), and their Call of the Hero makes moving around much easier. If you don't have a bard, pick a ranger for track.
    SevrinSevendust and Elsewhere like this.
  12. Elsewhere Elder

    Also, you can pocket the mercs when you don't need them. 2 Examples of this which I have experienced over the last few weeks.

    1) Was killing mobs down in Chardok B, which has a 21 minute spawn timer. Was running out of mobs at about the 17-18 minute mark. Suspending one of my Rogue mercs meant I then always had mobs to kill and wasn't waiting for pops.

    2) Sometimes, the content you are fighting is still blue con, but not very challenging. You can do just fine with regen and the odd minor heal here-and-there, suspend the Cleric merc until you need it (or until nameds/bosses spawn)
  13. Ainae New Member

    How do you do that ?
  14. Tucoh Augur

    There's basically two ways:
    Hitman Silent Assassin rank: mez a mob next to the named, then invis (not fade). The mezzed mob will have direct aggro, the named will have assist aggro. Because the named only has assist aggro, other mobs won't assist off it.

    Slop method: Tell your group to relax, turn clerics on passive, chuck a throwing star at the named mob, and run like hell back to your group. Once you get close try to split the mobs using a combination of tricks from mezzing, fading around corners, punting, highsunning etc.

    This is the best guide I've seen on bard pulling:
    https://web.archive.org/web/20140228032903/http://samanna.net/wiki/index.php/Pulling_Guide