Can spells please be added to the NtoV dragon loot tables?

Thanks.

yes.. It would give a reason for folks to do tov... its mainly alt gear minus vulak loot which a lot wont see due to his huge list of loots he can drop and the small amounts he does drop. Please give me a reason to log on to do the non vulak dragons... atm I loathe loging on to do the non Vulak dragons.

After you beat Vulak (having cleared every dragon once ect) there should be a totally new instanced that you can get with only Vulak up. Then if you decide to go back and do the other dragons, that instanced would check your lockout and see you have Vulak killed and it wont spawn or vice versa.

Although I personally like NToV for the parsing aspect and such, it will end up being terrible to have to do a 2 hour clear or whatever every night before you get to the loot you actually can use.

1 spell would be great per Dragon though.

While you are at it, add then to the raid vendors too.

wow
this is the most things I have agreeded to in ne post in a long time.. yes please add spells to the vendor list like you did in VoA please.

100% agree.

So anyone figure out yet if you can leave rooted dragons up when doing Vulak? Or atleast the non-lords/ladies?

Have to get the A little help from my friends achievement!

The NToV loot tables should also give raid currency and have the cultural augs. I have yet to see even one off of any dragon.

Why they decided to bork up the loot tables for this stuff I cannot ever understand (and yes I know its bonus content but 2-3 pieces of loot and zero currency is just wrong to me). Many of the are not particuarly trivial but only drop 1 vis and 1 non-visable pieces.

There is almost no precedence for this. Almost all past content would have spells, cult aug, and 2 vis + 2-3 weapons and/or non vislable gear and in voa everything except t1 had currency. This stuff should be added to vendors and raid currency for each dragon killed even if it less than doing progression raids.

I definitely agree with this part. As a part time raider (work doesn't allow me to hit all the raids, or stay the full raid when I am able to make it), I'd like some kind of currency for my troubles. I'm not on the DKP list for my guild being a part time raider, so the currency is what I used to get gear that's not as good as raiding gear, but better than group gear, and I'm happy with that.

Currency is unreasonable.

All this would do is increase the cost of anything on the T1 vendor by about triple what it is now. T2 wont change as the only thing that should give that is Vulak and one more event doesn't really matter.

Non-Vulak NToV = 12 set armor, 22 other drops (Sev and Cek only have 1+1, rest 1+2)
CoB and Sep5 (VoA T4) = 6 armor, 3 weapons, 4 non-vis, 2 cult augs, 8 spells
Sep1 to Sep4 (VoA T4) = 12 armor, 6 weapons, 8 non-vis, 4 cult augs, 16 spells
Sarith and Valley 4 times each (VoA T2) = 32 armor, 16 weapons, 16 non-vis, 4 cult augs, 32 spells, enough currency for 72 BPs or 180 non-vis.

Those 3 things take a similar amount of time, with the 540 currency from a T4 raid converted to 1 armor and boosting 1-2 non-vis to 2 non-vis per raid for a more direct comparison.

Non-Vulak NToV would pretty much match the Time vs Reward of an average T4 raid with a 25% chance at a Cultural aug and 1 spell per dragon.

Sarith and Valley have Time vs Reward so far beyond any other raid in EQ before or since that they aren't a good basis for comparison unless a set of raids shares the same apparent goal of setting a gear floor that everyone who has been raiding for a few months should have atleast this quality of gear in every slot.

I am going to be in the minority among players, but I oppose adding spells, cultural augs, and currency to NToV dragons. Here are my thoughts/reasons why-

1. There are four T1 events. Which means every week a guild that is not doing NToV (and instead focusing on progression/lore/story/etc) is getting 40 currency per week. IIRC there is somewhere around 14 or so dragons in NToV, which means if you offer currency to these dragons you are adding an additional 140 currency to players who just do NToV. It is not fair to those who are actually progressing in game to only get access to 40 T1 currency a week compared to those who are just doing a bonus zone getting 140 currency per week.

2. NToV has nothing to do with progression. Nothing. It does not unlock other tiers, it does not flag you for other events, it is just a loot pinata that is accessible on day 1. Why should things that are found on progression events (i.e. spells, cultural augs, currency) be also found on non-progression events? To me, that is not appropriate.

3. NToV, save for three dragons, is ridiculously easy. Guilds may be struggling with Zeikshi Kar, and put forth the time/effort/challenge into finally overcoming this event... and other guilds are steamrolling NToV dragons once they get past Aaryonar? You add all those abovementioned things to NToV dragons, now guilds are gearing up much faster with currency/spells/augs on much much easier content than guilds who are trying to progress and learn events like Zeikshi Kar. There is a risk/reward factor here that would be unbalanced.

NToV should just be a fun night of killing dragons and getting a couple pieces here/there. It should not be an alternate to raid currency/spells/cultural augs. If you do want to throw something on NToV dragons, throw some 25 or even 30 purity augs in the loot table. But don't let guilds fully gear out on T1 gear and 96-99 rk3 spells before even stepping foot in a Shards Landing raid.

Besides devs, don't you want your playerbase to be working on the progression raids? You know, experiencing the content you have designed? Not farming out easymode NToV for three months and once fully geared out, then working on progression raids... that destroys and eliminates a lot of the challenge of those progression raids.

The dragon are utterly trivial, be happy they don't even drop less loot than they already do, they re most of them easier than even voa T1.
It is plenty rewarding enough, the only thing I would agree is making them drop 1 or 2 minor/lesser raid spell.

Doing sarith and valley 4x would take a month due to current lockout, and they also drop lesser armor by far, so comparing to ntov is bogus ,as they don't really compare other than on difficulty (and ntov is probably still easier).
34loot in basically a 4hour run is huge and basically never heard of on T1.

The RvR for those dragon is huge, other than spells, you have no chance on augmenting the already overinflated rvr.

Grey Horizon - http://greyhorizon.org/

Thanks to their public DKP page this is the best available example of the kind of guild that Cicelee wants to make sure doesn't get some "unfair" advantage from beating NToV dragons but not having much success on RoF progression raids.

One win on King Tormax so 4 RoF Rk.3 spells and 1 cultural aug. Unless I missed a win or they have a recent 2nd RoF progression win not posted to the DKP page yet. Horror of horrors they might have a couple of dozen more Rk.3 spells and a handful more cultural augs from their NToV kills.

;join tunare.general and find out if GH has a chat channel they use and join that and explain to them how they are bottom feeding leeches who don't deserve more spells. How if the Devs add some spells to NToV they won't try prog raids until April.

120 Currency and/or 48 spells would be a crazy amount of loot, it would be really shocking if the Devs decide that would be an appropriate reward to add for clearing non-Vulak NToV. Adding some currency and/or spells to NToV is certainly possible.

It would take about 4* hours to do Sarith and Valley 4 times each, the other 716 hours in a month a combination of lockouts and common raid schedules that result in raids only being done every 7 days means people will be doing other things. The time vs reward for that 4 hours completely blew TvR of anything else in EQ history out of the water.

It would take about 4* hours to clear NToV other than Vulak, the other 164 hours in a week a combination of lockouts and common raid schedules that result in raids only being done every 7 days means people will be doing other things. The time vs reward for that 4 hours is not good relative to 12 of the 14 Alaris raids. It could use a boost, the Devs are considering boosting it.

Time vs Reward.

*Using the timeframe you picked. An equally progressed guild in Jan'12 would take about the same amount of time to win eight T2 Alaris raids as they would take to kill 12 Dragons in Jan'13 even if it's faster or slower than 4 hours.

42 guilds have voluntarily reported atleast one NToV kill even with it's current Time vs Reward. Empirical evidence that the current TvR is sufficient to get guilds to do the raids. Increasing the TvR would increase the longevity of the zone and also provide a boost targetted at a handful of guilds who have had some success in NToV but little or none on Progression raids.

Saying there is no chance of more reward for NToV happening on a thread where a Dev posted they are discussing adding spells to the Dragons is peculiar.

I am in favour of spell items, but make them random, not promised. That will slow the rate of finding. If raid coin goes in, i think it should be less than what you get for progression targets. Say 5 vs 10 per. Again gives incentive but slower .

I see no logical reason to not add spells and cultural aug drop chance to the ToV dragons. Currency is another matter, and I don't think there needs to be currency on the 12 non-Vulak dragons.

Adding currency to Vulak himself, and putting his items on the T2 vendor for the same cost as the visibles makes sense though. Especially given how massive his drop table is, and the time investment you must do to even begin his event (clearing 12 dragons prior).

If a Vulak only instance was added for those with at least 1 Vulak win, it would alleviate some of the problem as well.

i think spells being added to the dragons would be nice specially the 96-98's.

If they go with currency I think 20 total is appropriate. Maybe 5 on Aary to encourage people to do the Dragon they "should" do first, 5 on Vyemm which makes Aary/Vyemm and out on par with a T1 raid and I think that's appropriate, Aary/Vyemm is atleast in the same ballpark as Zeixshi. 1 on each of the other Dragons or 0-3 each based on difficulty totalling 10.