I understand your point, but there are events that have massive mana drains and 100% saps. 15% mana recovery wasn't even that much as it is, especially if you figure in the ratio of average MP pool vs. Spell Cost. So when you get a 1% return, whats the point of the dicho at all? An SKs vicious bite & soul flay collectively gives more MP than the bard dicho if that tells you anything.
What are you people disagreeing about? Nobody is against dicho being nerfed and nobody expects infinite mana. The point is that they over did it and made the ability basically useless. Granted every class has useless abilities but that doesn't mean you shouldn't complain about it when it happens.
increased the amount of damage it adds to spells and melee strikes, Is it worth casting when burns are called? how much did it increase?
It is now 4 melee adps higher than it was previously. No typo, exactly 4 higher. And 82 higher adps for spells. These numbers are exactly as ridiculous as they seem at first glance. You would literally deal more damage playing Psalm of the Forsaken once a minute for the extra damage shield in the off chance it lines up with ae rampages (this is not a recommended tactic).
There was a developer who said last year maybe on the forums or in a video, that the Dichotomic spells or any of the progression based spells were intended to be the most powerful gains ever. This year they will say the same thing about some upcoming expansion feature to get all the goobers to buy into it, and then nerf it unappropriately without any reasoning/explanation to it. Cause goobers always come back for more ready to throw their $$$ away!
It seems like some compromise should be made. If it is indeed factual that melee DPS increases by four, caster DPS increases by 82, and mana/endurance return is only 1%... that does seem extreme. However I would hope every player would agree that bard Dicho in its previous state was about as ridiculously over powered as anything could be, so changes needed to happen...
Well yes it is not the weakest Dicho out there; however the "stop whining and deal" part is rather rude and uncalled for...
Using full raids, rank 6, beat the expansion etc: Pre-patch, bard dicho added 12*118 = 1416 to melee each minute; post-patch, 12*138 = 1656. Those numbers are not subject to any modifiers, they are exactly what they appear. Pre-patch, bard dicho added 3*4423 = 13269 to nuke casts each minute; post-patch, 3*6059 = 18177. Those numbers are not subject to any modifiers, they are exactly what they appear. Oh, and it's only magic/fire/cold, so enchanters and necros can suckit. Presuming the bard groups only with characters that can make full use of both halves, post-patch, Dichotomic Psalm run on cooldown adds 330dps per teammate. Mana/endurance return is actually substantially less than 1% of a raider's pool now, at 1139 & 402 respectively. Those numbers are not subject to any modifiers, they are exactly what they appear.
These do get modified. They scale 1.0x per 1.0s of Delay for the skill that is being checked against with no penalty for HHE reduction or -x second skill delay reductions (certain discs do).
Hello, pot! Meet kettle! There's absolutely no argument to be had by comparing it to another class's "useless" dichotomic because Dichotomic Psalm was introduced this way in Beta. It was broken it Beta, it was reported broken in Beta, it was reported broken on Live, and it was talked about being broken in various forums of community channels after that, and it was allowed to be in the state that it was for literally 95% of The Broken Mirror. Not only that, but they introduced revamped DOTs and other abilities with absolutely insane mana costs while Dichotomic Psalm was still broken, and as such, it was the only reason those newly-introduced abilities were capable of being used more than a couple times an encounter (if you're lucky). If it was given to us completely useless, we wouldn't be having these types of discussions. No one would be saying "Oh how come our Dichotomic is still useless?!," that would just be how it is. But when you introduce and keep an ability like Dichotomic Psalm for darn near a year and make it the only viable means of maintaining certain abilities and resources for at least two different classes and then completely obliterate the ability into nothingness to the point where it's not even worth keeping on the song bar (let alone the song book...), not even the biggest of trolls can argue that that is somehow a good design decision. No one's saying we're now pointless to keep in the game. No one's saying Bards should be deleted. No one's saying we do absolutely nothing for a group because Dichotomic Psalm is now worthless. No one's even saying that Dichotomic was completely functioning as intended! Instead, we're saying it's the one good thing we had that made Bards more coveted and desired than they were in the past. It was the one good thing we had that was worth using and doing other than a measly epic click every three minutes. For the first time in quite literally years, it was the one good thing that made us stand out from other classes that have not been as so grossly stagnated as we have. And for the record, I'm emphasizing the word "good" because regardless of what you may have heard or the bad players that you may raid or group with, dichotomic psalm did not remove resource management from the raid game. I'm not at all saying it shouldn't have been looked at for the group game, but in the raid game the Bard better have been on his toes because it's very possible for Rangers and Beastlords to go out of mana (or very close to it) even with Dichotomic. If that's not the case in anyone else's experience, they're playing with some pretty bad Rangers and Beastlords. It made perfect sense for the ability to scale based on the size of the group. It promoted full groups and it made Bards a coveted member of that group. It fit perfectly into the melee groups -- which is where we've been told Devs want us to be kept -- because Rangers and Beastlords needed this the most. We've been all but phased out of caster groups, and now we're back to being completely mediocre for melee groups outside of 3+ minute fights. Not a single Dev ever acknowledged anything about Psalm, or dichotomics in general. It was just left go, abilities were balanced around it, and a year later they decide to all but remove it from the game. And for what compensation? A negligible (at best) amount of ADPS? No one's saying we now need to be removed from the game, we're saying take another look at it and take the nerfs one step at a time instead of butchering the ability.
Except there's no way to actually use those charges on a skill attack unless you turn off auto attack, and at that point who are we kidding? They dont get modified in the traditional sense of being able to crit, being effected by a hit dmg mod, etc. Even assuming they removed the counters and made it based purely on duration, the longest recast skill attacks would only get ~8k dmg added to them. The values would need to be increased multitudes higher for it to be any sort of significant/noticeable ADPS.
okay, so that's potentially interesting, I guess? It approximately doubles the value for regular melee? But what, for instance, is the Delay associated with Dichotomic Rage's 3 hits? 6s? 60s? something else? Or hey, is it comboriffic with the Reflexive AA hits, for the 4 classes that have a Reflexive AA? I don't know how to read the "skill that is being checked against" part of your information
Sure, but it's not always the same damage, if you did the 12 hits in 4 successful hits per 3 seconds that would be 4968 damage, not the 1656 in the same 12 second period. If you swung every 2 seconds and landed all hits, it would be 3312 damage, and so on. This also means that it can be WORSE, for example a Monk dual wielding with a 0.8 delay at 225% haste on 18 delay weapons only getting 1320 damage out of the 12 hits. It's hard to say since it's so different per class and what you can do in that 12 hit period. 12 hits isn't much time to like "plan" what to hit in the period, but the gap is wide between least and most value (even tho it's little vs little). Then there's possible Disc gains... Not double for regular melee, 138 is 138 if your delay on melee swing is 1.0s, if you are swinging at a 2.0s delay you will get 276 per hit instead, fractions of seconds do work. HHE delay reduction does not lower the modifier - so if your HHE gain dropped your 2.0s delay to 1.0s delay, you would still get base * 2.0 while swinging at a 1.0s interval. Certain discs work this way too, such as monks Heel line lowering Flying Kick to roughly 1s reuse, while enjoying a roughly 4x multiplier of the base damage listed of that SPA (both #'s rounded). For Discs themselves I have not tried what it does though it would be easiest to test on a Monk or Rogue who can buff lock duration their Dicho disc (they both use the same SPA as the Bard song melee portion) in GH and spam out the discs on a Dummy to get max normal hit Dicho vs not Dicho and seeing the raw damage gain. This should get roughly the seconds used / scaling damage modifier #. I imagine it has to have an upper cap or something otherwise it would be extreme scale, which I don't think it has.
And on Discs the answer looks to be a 10x modifier (on the base damage listed) is the cap no matter how long the reuse is So in that current form the bard song melee portion is anywhere from 0 dps to 276 dps depending on what the person lucks out on doing during its 12 hit limit, heh.
So, operating at the song's top potential (not the teammates' top potentials. this is assuming they warp their play significantly, and to the substantial detriment of their overall output, to suit our Dicho conversation), the melee boost approximately matches the spell boost. Super, then, revised: That sound more worth 7746 endurance ?
To clarify some of the math going on here: When calculating the delay associated to SPA 433: Weapon skills: Weapon * Haste Skill attacks: Hasted delay of the button SPA 193: 30 second delay is assumed Field 132: Base Effects Focus Cap: An int that is calculated to be a 0.01 precision float. Spells 49149-49160 have a value of 100; meaning, take the base value of each SPA and double it. Rank 6 - Empowerment: ~11,424 heal ~2,278 mana ~804 endurance 12 x [276 * (delay*haste)] melee damage (Incorrect) Rank 6 - Potential: 1-3 x 12118 spell damage (Incorrect) Realistic endurance cost since the caster benefits from the effect: 7746 - 804: 6942. Edit: The original assessment of the damage of this spell is invalid because SPAs 286 (spell damage) and 433 (melee damage) are not impacted by the bard song multiplier. Please see THIS post for an update.
