Part of the problem is all of our agro over time abilities share the same SPA and do not stack. Not saying they need to. The Parly line has a few issues in my opinion. First it has zero hate override. Instant cast but if it lands first since other AA and spells can all be on cool down it can be hard to reestablish solid agro. (Also our best agro over time generating ability) Second it has our undead slow attached to it. - stated earlier Third the agro over time component resets as its reapplied - stated earlier Fourth the spell range and its sub parts ranges are a mess. Parlay itself is 270 range (with extension?), its recourse Parlay of honor is 300 range and the undead slow is only a 200 range. They should all line up to the effective max range if the spell. Don't really like the idea of adding mark to this line and prefer it be seperate or something like I put below for reactive mitigation help for the class since self-buffs don't get resisted unless buff locked. I do like the idea of scrapping audacity line and adding the resist debuff to audacity since classes with a better debuff option should overwrite it anyway. Mitigation Our reactive healing sucks and needs a lot of help. SK have a self-buff that functions like a combination of our two mark lines but is self only so when they get hit they automatically receive a heal. Why can't they combine the damage of our Mark of the Protector line and healing from Mark of the Exemplar line into the Armor of Unyielding Grace line since it's not exactly exciting as a class only buff. Tweek the DS component and heal as needed for balance purposes.
What do you mean? Are you referring to Beacon and Lodestar or something else? There is SPA 192 for hate over time and SPA 456 for hate % over time (which only necromancers get on Gathering Dusk AA). For SPA 192, paladins have it in three different spell slots: Slot 1: * for Honor Slot 1: Heroic Bound (zero duration though, really just hate override) Slot 3: Beacon Slot 3: Lodestar Slot 5: Audacity My observation is that SPA 192 is additive, i.e. Honor + Audacity + Beacon works. I know some paladins activate both Beacon and Lodestar at the same time (sometimes I do too) and that might be questionable effectiveness. Together they might tag more than 8 mobs at least.
Was there a point of dragging SPA 456 into this since it does not even apply to Paladin hate over time? Perhaps I assumed those discussing Paladin hate over time abilities all use SPA 192? Yes, you can use all of those abilities in your example together and even more like Divine call for the upfront agro. Your only going to get hate from the highest PSA 192 effect though (the agro over time portion of the spell). Maybe if you look at those spells / abilities as a two-part spell the initial landing agro, what I consider the upfront portion and then the hate over time component. So, the working parts of your example would be the Initial hate value of Honor, 18,484 + Audacity 9711+ Beacon 22,000 + the highest hate over time value from those three and that is from Parlay @ 27,009 per tick. You never see the hate benefit from the ticks coming from Audacity 8,110 or Beacon 12,000 if Parlay is active and ticking because they are the same SPA and obviously Parly is the highest value. Does that clarify it?
If you're spamming agro fast enough, you can actually cast Parlay in the spam key order and get the upfront agro 18,848 to land but end up recasting it before the agro over time tick lands. Mostly due to our recast timers of spells and AA.
There are some paladinic weapons with a DoT aggro with no duration, but it lands SPA DoT (Like Nature's Defender's proc is DoT - 0 duration - instant)
Yes I see your position and I think it's incorrect. So I will do some SPA 192 testing to confirm that I think they are additive in different slots (like I said). Stay Tuned.
I wanna touch on this specifically because I believe you are mistaken about the last part and I was the one who was suggesting combining them. I suggested adding the magic debuff component of audacity to honor, while also increasing honor's HaoT by how much audacity gives. Turning 2 spells into one, something that has history in many other classes in EQ, combo dots, etc. The overwriting is what I'd like to address as incorrect though. AFIK, the magic debuff component is in no conflict with enchanter tash. It doesn't get overwritten like a slow spell on a mob for example, likely because of the slots for the magic debuff component. There is zero reason to not be casting ardent on mobs as well. I will agree with other notes in your post though, mainly that Honor and the SK equivalent should have hate override components. As a paladins only instant cast hate ability, it is a no-brainer it should have hate override as a useful pulling tool while running. While I don't keep Honor in my spam line, I will tell you the downside, you cast a HaoT twice before the tick and the "tick timer" resets, you refreshed the debuff. So it's only the initial hate component you are applying and none of the hate over time if you are spamming it a second time before it has a chance to tick.
That doesn't prevent any hate, though. You're just squeezing in an extra hit of the initial 18484 hate (and restoring the spa451 protection) before it ticks. I guess there's a bit of perspective that it's not as efficient as just letting it run full duration before recasting? But I don't think that's the concern of anyone here.
Not shocked we are disagreeing here. But if I cast a HaoT with initial hate component and get it on again before the tick, it refreshes when that tick will happen....it's not gonna tick, because I've "overwritten" my own HaoT debuff. You are losing half of the spell's effectiveness.
All ticking things happen on the tick, which is server based. They don't have their own analog timers to be reset. All HoTs tick at once, all DoTs tick at once, all buffs use up 1 tick of their duration (and hate over time adds hate) when the servers say "now a tick happens". You can have cast Honor just once in the preceeding 5.999999 seconds, whether that was 0.01s before or 5s before, or hax your way to 50 repeat casts: if Honor is on the enemy when the server says a tick happens, then you get the per-tick 27k hate at that time.
Audacity magic debuff is unique and I want to keep it. Paladin's always needed it and imho it's not for sale.
It's not an issue to me. If you recast Honor then it's acting like a hate nuke, like an SK terror with an upside.
Reading. Trying to see where I said get rid of audacity or the actual magic debuff. I said combining them into a single cast would be a nice improvement. ADDING the magic debuff to honor since it is instant cast perhaps OR by making a combo spell that casts the highest ranks of those two spells...there's history in that approach.
I've tested and your statement is incorrect. SPA 192 is additive in different slots. Audacity + Honor is more hate over time then either alone. A tanking paladin should be stacking them both. I did not test Beacon + Lodestar in slot 3 yet.
