Constructive feedback on Mangler and Selo

When I said FV ruleset I just meant free-trade. Forget the rest.

Add the ORIGINAL Fironia Vie ruleset to Mangler (in addition to hard xp and corpse runs, and if you dare... PvP):

This is a PvE (Player vs. Environment) server, NOT a PvP (Player vs. Player) server. In other words, it's a standard "blue" server with the same rules and features regarding PvP as the vast majority of our servers. It is not one of the "Zeks".
Auction restricted to city zones: Qeynos, Surefall Glade, Highkeep, Freeport, Rivervale, Erudin, Halas, Neriak, Grobb, Oggok, Greater Faydark, Ak'Anon, Kaladim, Felwithe, Paineel, Cabilis, Kael and Thurgadin.
Beneficial buff spells will not work on characters 20 levels lower than the caster.
Each character will be assigned an "alignment" upon creation. This alignment will be described in brief on the character creation screen (in the same location their Deity is described).
Each character will be able to change their alignment once any time after they reach 10th level if they choose. A character is not required to change alignments, but may do so any time after attaining 10th level. The player will be able to choose from a list of alignments based on their race, class and deity.
A character's alignment will determine whether or not they can group or guild with other characters.
A character's alignment will determine an experience bonus or penalty when grouping with other characters.
A character's alignment will determine if they can cast beneficial spells on other characters (including resurrections).
Language skills will improve only through group chat in the same zone and from /say.
Languages will only improve 1 point each hour and will be capped at level*5+5 skill points.
Common will not exist. A Human language will be added and only made easily available to certain races.
One character per account.
The Trivial Loot Code will be in effect in all zones.
Very few items will be No-Drop. Exceptions will include things such as newbie notes and epic weapons.
Bind Affinity will be restricted for all characters to locations where melee characters can bind on other servers.
/emote will be language specific
All characters will be /roleplay.
/alignment will display the alignment of your character and probably a more detailed description of that alignment.

Just disregarding the rest of the rules, what I don't think they understand is that the server with the faster XP is going to be populated and the other one a ghost town. Doesn't matter what they do on Mangler if the XP remains as is.

They really should be making both servers have the same XP rate. It's more or less the top priority for the majority of players. Everything else is just window dressing.

Selos: Leave alone with one exception - planes of power unlocks after 3 months instead of 1. Players experience the 1-60 gameplay in 3 months, where on other servers that would have been 12, and then it’s off to the races.

Mangler: XP rate is the big issue here. Adjust to RF/LJ/Ag levels and it seems fine. Will be interesting to experience early game with no focus. Maybe remove the melee innate AAs too! If you wanted to make it really hardcore, make ALL items no drop, and corpses do not unlock.

Mangler with Classic (or Kunark) start + Selo exp + 2-3 month unlocks + FV = my dream server

Never gonna happen, daybreak absolutely refuses to do an FV TLP.

FV has the FV ruleset. That's it's big selling point and it's the most popular live server. Hell, a few months after each tlp release it's the most popular server period. I doubt they will do anything to effect that cash cow. Remember, expansion sales also come from live servers. It's a tough call, really, because we need them to keep making money for the game to continue to exist. FV rules on a tlp would be a risky proposition because it would fragment FVs population.

We ever get a server like ragefire/phinny with long unlock timers again? +aoc ruleset?

I suggest removing all keying on Selo's (or at least increasing keying drops by 1000%) and raising the unlocks to 6 weeks would make it an excellent server. Keying is not a casual thing and it's not fun. The 6 weeks would retain the fast unlock speed but would be doable and the faster unlocks would likely get me up to content i've never previously tried. I think with those parameters there would be good number of people that would make it to live.
Mangler, as stated, tbh, is not a super great idea for hardcore. It's not really my thing but imo, For hardcore, you pretty much have to have corpse runs or something along those lines (maybe death until rezzed if that mechanic is more doable) and probably some other hard mechanics. At least then the people that want to brag hardcore will actually deserve some bragging rights. I don't view grinding the same mobs for countless hours to level as particularly brag-worthy. I dunno, don't really see it working as is. I think to most people it just sounds boring and not really hardcore.

I think we need to consider the business goals DBG has to meet with every server for it to be viable.

Something to keep in mind is the majority of players will never make it to max level or if they do, won't make it through multiple expansions. The new server rush, where you get that huge shot of nostalgia to the veins, is where the vast chunk of players get their fix and then churn out.

Looking at Coirnav, we can assume that the slow experience rate was likely a way of increasing experience potion sales at the cost of a smaller number of people making it to high level. The tail of the population that makes it there is going to be the most profitable as they continue to spend - a server like Phinigel demonstrates that this is possible.

Coirnav also showed the beginnings of classic/TLP fatigue in terms of numbers. It was still packed, but not as much as previous launches. This probably contributes to why they are starting Selos in Luclin - it's a fresh approach, also widens the appeal with more starting classes/races.

My read is that this is a best of both worlds approach - they want a server that can propel players that would normally churn out into higher level ranges, giving them constant content (monthly) to hopefully increase the size of the tail and graduate it into a live server eventually.

But DBG also doesn't want to miss out on the classic nostalgia hounds and by announcing the low exp rate on Mangler, they can potentially still get a really high return on experience potions etc even though it will likely have lower numbers with the 2 server launch. In effect it's a slightly tweaked curve based on Coirnav.

The servers make sense to me, I think the miss here is with how they were announced as 'ultra casual' and 'hardcore'.

I think DBG are basically in a place where it's a choice between riding out the negative feedback to stick with your model projections versus making changes that will improve sentiment around the launch.

Personally I think the classic fatigue factor could be slightly underestimated in this approach. A simple solve would be to balance the experience rate to simplify the choice.

EG:

Leave Selos as it is

Change Mangler to have the same experience rate as Selos and potentially change the start point to a trilogy start (Kunark or Velious)

My 2c

I think 6 weeks unlocks for both servers would be smart. That would make it quite challenging to beat in-era content before the next unlock on Mangler and give casual players time to gear up for content. The balance would be to remove keying on Selo's (or increase key component drops 1000%+) that would make it far more casual but at 6 weeks it would still be a challenge for the casual player. If you do those things then Mangler will truly be hardcore because most likely you are going to have to dedicate a lot of time to even beat current content, let alone beating it enough to be geared for the next expansion content. I would bet that mangler content would get to the point where more is unlocked than what guilds are able to beat in era. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, I think it would be cool to see the bar keep raising at that speed on Mangler. That seems a lot more challenging and hardcore to me and beating the content on there in-era would be closer to brag-worthy. Also, I think both should probably start in the same era be it classic or luclin, whatever.

You nailed it. Though I think they need to make the unlocks the same on both servers, I suggest both 6 weeks and they should remove keying from selos. Those changes make it so there's really no way you can credibly pretend to be hardcore on selos and make Mangler the clearly hardcore server.

Why would anybody want Selo xp on a 3 month unlock server?
Do you know how boring it gets to be maxed level/AA and have to wait 2 months 3 weeks for the next expansion to unlock?
In that boredom, how many people will be alting it up and then switching raid mains? Guild leaders love that!
I'm not saying everybody but surely the majority of people asking for faster xp are those planning on having as many maxed out characters as possible.

Why would anybody want that?

This has never been stated by anyone working for DBG. People such as yourself assert that position.

Whatever they did or did not ever state, they've made another TLP release that does not contain an open loot server despite the calls for one over the past few years. By the time they decide to open one Pantheon could release.

Selos ruleset sounds perfect to me except for that and the truebox falsity; aren't so many people still just working around truebox?

Saying "FV rules" is just shorthand for open loot. Except for a very isolated few, no one actually means having language restrictions, one character only, etc when they say "FV rules".

So I've played EQ for 20 years and have been to probably 5+ Fain Faires/SOE Lives. Was also an influencer for a time being. I was looking forward to coming back for this progression release and being able to play casually (from classic) with slower unlocks that accomodate people who have adult responsibilities. Feeling like myself (and this customer base who you are trying to capture) are always chasing and behind the curve due to having to manage other things in life. This situation is a primary driver behind why your old vets can't play as much as they would like to anymore. Launching a casual server with fast exp and unlocks plus starting at SOL doesn't make sense. As the responses indicate, this is a mistake. Always chasing, feeling like you have to sacrifice real life to keep up. Not interested.
Suggestion:
Reset the rules for your casual progression server. Start with Classic. Make unlocks 3 months at the shortest. Make the exp rates good but not great. If you stay with the current rules, I'm out - probably permanently to be honest.
Thanks,
Lazaretto

My opinion: I think it foolish to make the expansion release rate 1 month on Selo. What the heck is the point of a casual server that wont help casuals keep up?? Its not causal, just accelerated.... Selo should be a sever where hardcore people come and go because they blaze through everything but casuals and people with limited time can keep up with current content.
I went to play on test some years ago because i wanted to get into all the current content and but couldnt play enough to keep up with AAs etc. Selo should server a similar function......

That's why its casual, so people like you can go play on other severs when bored and slower actual casual people can keep up.

If slow unlocks are so good, Coirnav is still only in Luclin, or did it open PoP yet? Either way, there's been so so many 3 month unlock servers already. If people who prefer long unlocks don't want to join Coirnav because they want a brand new server and missed getting in on Coirnav when it was new, I sympathize, but Selos is actually the most changed/refreshing idea yet, so they should really be fighting to change Mangler, not Selos.

Well, Selos is the most refreshing idea yet except for the failure to provide open loot. Which it badly needs since it's starting in Luclin where the no trade loot begins to dominate.

It's so easy to level up on these servers.
I'm casual, I don't box, I had 3 max level toons on Phinny plus others that I goofed around on when I was bored.
My character slots were full and they're maxed out (12/12 iirc)

If you can only play a couple of hours a week then maybe Daybreak could put out some for of Heroic Character for the TLP's.

If you speed up xp then the majority of players will get bored after a month and quit/go back to old servers.