The point was twofold: (1) your session with a CRT member does not mean much (2) particularly since there are members of the dev team who don't understand it. Depending on who looks at it, they are likely to go 100% in the wrong direction as the correct one. As for your test, try with 3 parties in current content at point blank range with backs to the mob. Valik is only level 80 iirc and there enough quirks in aggro for that to matter.
Valiant returning 60% of hate has been repeatable across EOK T2/T1 trash as well. Though I haven't had enough control to go through and test as thoroughly the other abilities on said trash in EOK.
Even with Wade running, the best a warrior could do is probably ping pong aggro with an SK. It would take pretty extreme circumstances for a warrior to lock down aggro against an SK if they were competing in a group for a single pull, let alone for the span of 2 minutes that Wade is up. Wade becomes stronger as more mobs are hitting so automatically we need a slew of mobs hitting us for a decent amount of time. It would be almost impossible for Wade to win out over an SK because we just don't have enough active AE aggro abilities to keep up with an SK to get the mobs to hit us. Even our single target stuff wouldn't be powerful enough without using multiple abilities on each mob. We would never be able to get enough mobs hitting us. Think of what an SK can fling at a mob within seconds: 2 explosions, DB, SoF, Disgust (if they want to even use it), DD plus 14k aggro procs from their EoK rune weapon. SK has initial aggro on all the mobs using just 1 explosion + DD and our Stormstrike would lose. We would then have to quickly go down the line of targets and try and single target aggro them in rapid succession or AE taunt. If that warrior fires AE taunt the SK could just dump everything else and the warrior would be left in the dust. Revisionist history. You didn't say anything about replacing Wade until I'm the one who said I would love to swap it out with fast reuse abilities that are individually "weaker" than Wade, but collectively, way more powerful. The problem is the SK community would be infuriated if Warriors even sniffed the strength of SK ae-aggro. You know that, I know that, we all know that. Like I said previously, we to first find a reasonable compromise to the situation before just scrapping things. Without Wade a warrior is worse off for AE aggro than a Paladin, which is the class that's intended to be the worst AE aggro of the three archetypes.The only way that's possible is to have a large scale meeting with delegates for all 3 archetypes and the devs acting as moderators. The devs would have to promise the change would come in a patch or the next expansion. Until a resolution is met, Wade has to stay. Harmonious can be choked, chopped up, buried and forgotten about at any time.
Make no mistake - I wouldn't trade SK ae aggro for a Warrior's - but I think you're downplaying Wade. With 2 explosions, stream, deceitful, and distasteful, that's roughly a base of 294352 ae aggro over 2 minutes. Wade with 1 mob hitting should proc 6 times a minute iirc for 150276 ae aggro: with two = 300552, with three = 450828, etc. It's not difficult to lock aggro with 1-2 mobs to start that ball rolling. That said, I hope this is only academic - would hate to think you are fighting each other for ae aggro.
If your heal team is on point, it's usually more efficient to have less tanks, tank more, and have said healers focus fire. So it's very possible that some guilds that is an issue.
No. If you do the math Wade's aggro potential out does the sum of an SK hitting everything, memming and chain casting multiple ae's, the hate from some rune procs, etc. Is having more buttons on a shorter timer generally better for overall gameplay? Absolutely. But it's also just about the one thing the SK class is supposed to be best at, and even then both war/pal should probably get some of these types of abilities for QoL, imo. Again, in the group game, aggro generation is largely not an issue for anyone. Even Paladin aggro in its meh state generally doesn't have too many issues holding aggro over dps and at the group level that's pretty much all that matters in that space. Or do you regularly go exp with 2 warriors and 2 knights and run into aggro issues? Yeah, didn't think so. In the raiding game, where there are many tank classes all present at once, it matters. And Wade's aggro potential outdoes anything an SK's half dozen short reuse buttons being hit every recast can do, short of taunting mobs one by one and hoping for success. And that ability is triggered via a couple of button presses and is almost completely passive while running and has a very reasonable uptime/reuse. That's poor in just about every respect. Only if by this you mean I made a 2 sentence, very general reply to you saying Harmo was awful but Wade is fine, where I stated an opinion that *all* passive ae aggro abilities were dumb and should be removed, to which you then replied that you need one of yours because your other tools suck, and then in *every other* reply in the entire thread I repeatedly said I absolutely agreed with your assertion that it should be replaced with tools to fill the void, then yeah.....clearly I did a major 180 eh? You're better this, Pika. Wait....what? Since when has DB cared about the feels of one class when they change another? I'd say lobby for better tools in the next expansion, ones with fast reuse but generally moderate hate, and then Wade can be brought back to earth or removed entirely. But it's not like they're listening to us anyway, and it's hard to blame them. Plus that kind of balance would require a lot of work and it's easier to just slap a massive band aid on like they did and ignore it. Aggro shouldn't be a chore for anyone, and covering your classes' ae deficiencies with a giant sledge hammer is poor design and, especially in raids where hate generation vs other tanks actually matters, poor gameplay. Defending it because you need it due to general lacking is very different than defending it because it's a good, well thought out and balanced ability. I can see you're doing the former, but it doesn't change the ability itself, and no amount of finger pointing that SKs get this or that shiny thing makes Wade, and the other passive ae hate abilities, less dumb.
Sheex I am not sure your playstyle in group content or the Paladins you know, but we absolutely can have issues in the group game. Most of them are related to AE aggro issues, especially in a fast paced group. Where are longer high aggro cooldowns aren't available to money shot aggro. Now we can work around this by demanding our group be less efficient, and that's all well and good if they don't mind getting less done/night.
I admittedly don't group with Paladins much, but I'd be all for Paladin hate improvements. If all 3 tanks are sposed to mitigate similarly and be interchangeable (which seems like the direction they've been going for awhile, for better or for worse), aggro should have relative parity as well and not be a chore. Yep, pretty much.
I agree, but since the Dev crew wants agro to be a thing I think it is going to be a chore for everyone. Also it depends on the group makeup, for single target or mez type groups, then paladins are great and bring just as much as the other tanks. It is when it comes to mass AE groups that they don't hold up. The problem is (and I want them to have tools) how much do you give them before we are all the same in AE agro? War with harmonious and wade are just as good in ae as sk in the group game SK shines when it needs to be controlled ae agro.
IF they fix the hate mods on Valiant a good portion of our issues will disappear overnight. When it worked (Valiant Deflection era) it provided a small but reasonable bump to our area aggro. The hate mods on heals are supposed to affect all mobs you are on the hate list for. This allowed us to struggle just a hair less (it was only something like 2000 hate per cast area). Granted that was also before the DOT changes which are where some of the issues in the group game come from. However Valiant Defenses heal hate mod is much beefier than the old iteration (6621 Hate rk1). So possibly we would be ok with that being fixed. If it's not fixed or for some reason can't be. Well they would need to come up with something that wouldn't be OPAF yet still allow us to perform at the median level. I am perfectly fine with having not great AE aggro, but the current situation is I have not great AE aggro sometimes and none the rest. Coupled with the fact spells devoted to aggro almost entirely take up 7 of 12 slots of my spell bar counting nukes, because they do benefit in aggro, though the rate at which we are free to use them is nowhere near what it was in the past which leaves very little room for much else.
If valiant were fixed and the new rune for knight weaps, I think you would be in a decent place. I still don't think you could do an ae group, and even one of the new dots on a mob your not focused on and it could get ripped from you. Those dots insane agro.
The SK deflection spell line is amazing, not because of its power but just because it's fast cast, a decent amount of hate, and very fast recast. So it's up whenever it's needed, even if everything else is still down. It's really what puts us over the top in grouping ae aggro situations imo. Probably my favorite aggro related spell we've gotten since the very first spell ae terror, Dread Gaze, back in Omens. The Pal deflection line was originally stagnated I want to say? Haven't played a Unicorner past 60 ish so knowledge in that arena is limited.
Yes and it got a solid bump this expansion. If we are tanking actively it's our best/most frequently cast spell for the same reasons yours is good: fast cast, fast recast.
Group or raid? raid one is 7200 rune so 14400 agro + mods. I don't really do much in group game other than augs and progression so dont know what the group rune is.
