Seems to me like yours getting fixed and War getting something similar might be a good thing for everyone's QoL.
Please provide any instance in which a warrior is using Wade on raids. I have yet to use it. And again, any mobs in raids that I can think of even using Wade during are dying so fast that an SKs abilities would much better suit a tank's needs rather than Wade. Or are you forgetting (yet again) that Wade requires mobs to be hitting us in order for it to be useful? Even if we have 1 mob hitting us and it's procing, let's say once a tick, the others mobs still have to be right on top of us to get hit with that aggro. If an SK already dumped 100-200k worth of AE aggro on mobs and has them locked down, they will simply die before a warrior reattains aggro. There is no situation where Wade would be superior or AE aggro being useful because of mobs dying so quickly or the damage output onto the tank would be too great that it would result in a death. And in the group game AE aggro is a non factor as we aren't competing with anyone. Lceanium - maybe could use it but mobs get spread out to avoid AEs and enough mobs will easily kill a warrior, even with full defensive running mobs are consistently hitting 20k+. Mobs also die way too quickly. Also, with the delay in waves, Wade may only be good for 1 wave. Droga - If you kill Priest first I guess you could use Wade. Mobs also die very quickly. If a warrior doesn't use furious or fort, they will die pretty damn instantly with 20+ mobs whacking you. Prince - No use for Wade. Queen - I've yet to see warriors be put into add groups here. They are on queen and the captains. Wade could be used here if warriors are assigned add duty. However, some adds need to be pulled away from raid so they aren't always bunched together. Vault - Possibly here but mobs get spread out at times and the damage input from 3 mobs is a good clip unless using defensives, which I try to do it with golems and dervishes and named later on. Again, Wade minimal use for that. Also we tend to do 1 mob per tank here. Korsha1 - Wade is useless. Tanking more than 2 of those adds will result in a death rather quickly. 1 tank per mob there is what we do. Dragon - Wade is a death sentence on multiple drakes with frontal AEs, Fire dot, melee damage Atrebe - Maybe the adds later on but we don't tank more than 2 at a time so Wade isn't required nor too useful. Note the bold word: potiential. Sure, Wade has the potential to be WTF OP, but it will never hit anywhere close to that potential because of natural deficiencies of the ability. For example, how many mobs are hitting us and for how long. In 90% or more situations I can think of, the mobs will die too quickly for Wade to surpass SK abilities, especially in raids. Again, revisionist history. You made multiple statements before even saying anything about giving Warriors SK-like ae aggro abilities. Also, I never said Wade was fine. I said it was much much different than Harmonious. Different =/= fine. English comprehension tends to be the short falling throughout this forum it seems.
Was speaking with a mutual friend of ours and he was telling me about what you all experienced. I did some testing last night with two SKs and can verify that bold attacks, hate mod on mask, and hate mod from VoT all work as intended, which seemed to be in question for you all. FYI, to keep apples to apples, I went to ToB with a chanter and the two SKs. Had the chanter get initial aggro on Valik, SK with no mods on cast highest terror (both SKs have rank 3), then SK with only bold attacks on cast - he took aggro. Blurred, repeated in reverse order, and SK with BA on kept aggro, as expected. Same for hate mask (we both have the same TBM raid one) and VoT. So unless something is really whacked, you should be able to rule out all of those components and focus just on your spells.
Alright. Did the %s of aggro match what they should have been mathematically? Granted our tests were done before the last patch.
I didn't crunch the numbers, just made sure they were on / off. It was late. If I can squeeze it in, will do it again with mods vs some small terrors to see if the numbers work out as expected.
I lol at the crusade made atm by some SK against warrior wade, as Triconix has well explained it, to be the "perfect" tool you need to have all mobs pop at the warrior, so that he clicks his Stormstrike blade and Wade and all mobs hit him. The reality is that this situation happens once in a blue moon. Be it in raid or in group, mobs come by waves. Even when they are in the same spot. The first mob aggroed come first to the raid / group with the mobs that were next to him, followed by the rest that aggroed on sight around and that were farther. Unless the next wave comes after 45 sec of time the time Stormstrike Blade refresh, wade will not work on the next waves coming. The SK will just steamroll through these waves as he can click in his lot of AE aggro tools one active AE ability one at a time to gather all of them around him. If you exclude AE harmonous aggro for both classes (and SK one is 2 x more powerful than war one), War AE aggro is miles behind SK AE aggro tools, it's not even in the same close ballpark.
If the monsters come in waves you spread out your ae abilities to get them, same thing sk has to do. Your group has to be smart enough to leave the new ones alone for 6 seconds (other than the primary target, hello /assist) so that wade procs. Wade is a great tool. It can be useless or wonderful. It is all in how you use it. I agree with Sheex that harmonious/wade should be taken out. War and pally need a 1 min and 1.5 min reuse ability with all their current ones.
For the love of god without a hate over time (Hallowed Lodestar + Beacon really shouldnt be hit together it results in less over all hate) and larger than 30' range. Id take a frontal beam (Directed Force of Disruption from SOD Beta can be used as the template) even, though PBAOE is obviously preferable.
I was meaning add in extra abilities at the 1 min and 1.5 min recast as well as keeping all the current ones for ae hate. Wouldn't put you right at sk, but would help a lot.
Over the last 2 expansions, I've seen our warriors regularly use Wade on add tanking duties on: PoFear PoHate Emollious PoHealth Rat Boromas Lceanium Droga Chardok Queen Chardok Vault Basically, most, but not all, of the events with adds. We haven't quite started t3 eok yet, we're mid tier so we move slowish. Your guild may not have warriors on add duty, but we do quite often. Here is *exactly* what I said. First vague, general statement about dumb mechanics being dumb when you attempted to differentiate Harmo from Wade: Then, ~2 hours later I made a longer more detailed reply which included: So no, that's not revisionist history. That's clarifying an opinion very shortly after making a very general one. I think we'll have to agree to disagree about Wade in general, though. If you are convinced that Harmo is broken to the point you won't even cast it, but defend Wade, will just roll my eyes and move on.
To be honest I think they should boost the agro generating capabilities of harmonious even further and extend the range! Its use might become more strategic then Which would make it ok!
Should just remove both Wade and Harmonious imo. They can take those and give me an innate proc for a bunny that does 5 DPS because then at least I can have some fun! Maybe make it affected by Rage of Rallos?! BUNNY ARMY AGRO FTW! Our AOE agro generation outside of Wade and Harmonious isn't that great, that's for sure. It is passable though, it gets initial agro and then you can start cycling mobs with single targets. Everybody apparently wants easy mode AOE agro, cast 1 or 2 spells and or abilities and be set with minimal effort. I remember what it was like to have to actually try, boy it's been a while. Nothing more fun than hitting 2 abilities followed with AOE taunt and tanking all the weapons for Vault /yawn. Oh but I don't have to use these abilities right?! So my argument is poopoo because nobody is forcing me to use them so I have no leg to stand on right? These short sighted abilities are why every raid team gets average or less players coming to them because they can push 1 button and be top dog of agro and then die and wonder what happened. People dont grasp the concept and power of their abilities when they can constantly have an extremely OP ability on them and hit a random assortment of keys to lock agro on 1 or multiple mobs. Removing abilities unfortunately would be too much work I imagine, so the other option is gut the hell out of them. Make em both 1k hate or less base. So it's still something! Just not some independent ability that requires no effort after mashing. Oh wait you may have to hit taunt on that second mob, oh no I forgot! PS. Wars need a DPS nerf STILL and WTB another 5% off Defensive Proficiency, 6% for Knights cause I want to see if someone has an angry reply to the 1% difference.
I would drop any class to main one that summons armies of angry bunnies each time it gets hit. OMGOSH!
Paladins badly need a boost in ae agro and single target agro generation. I dont give a crap if Sks and warriors are left alone, but paladins need to be brought up in line. Harmonious spells all need looked at and adjusted. I dont see why 2 out of 3 classes have ae versions of harmonious. Passive ae agro, that relies on heals to generate is a terrible idea. Paladins had badly OP agro in Call of the forsaken with Shining bastion procs from clerics triggering the paladin group heal aa, it got nerfed. Harmonious needs to get the same treatment. Beacon of the righteous and Hallowed lodestar could stand to have their hate numbers doubled, and I doubt we would even get into the same ballpark as sks and warriors right now when it comes to AE. Paladin single target generation is "ok" but the cool downs for ageless enmity and undivided are too long. Our crushes and stuns do not generate enough agro by themselves to effectively stay ahead of dps or other tanks on long boss fights. Divine call and Projection of Piety need upgrades. Aside from the new upgraded Valiant defense, our agro spells are all 3 years old. Agro stagnation while all the other classes are bringing drastically more dps/agro to groups and raids has put paladins in the worst spot they have been in for many years.
Do you see why 2 out of 3 classes have single target versions of Harmonious? Do you see why 2 out of 3 classes crit up significant heals from their Harmonious? Do you see why 2 out of 3 classes got an Alliance instead of two versions of Harmonious? Do you see why 1 out of 3 classes have a stun lock built in to their Harmonious? Are the answers to all of the above "because there are three classes; if all their tools were distributed the same, they'd just be one class"?
You kind of miss the fact that 2 out of 3 classes have complete agro lock with their harmonious, while the third ins't in the same ball park using EVERY tool they have.
Why the hell would we even want a stun. It does wonky stuff with aggro and lowers our dps, and makes doing certain things more difficult then they need be. The stun is detrimental. As far as I am concerned. Let alone the fact the stun doesn't justify the MASSIVE difference in total aggro generation per completion of the counter limit.
The total hate per cast of Beacon and Hallowed are fine. The real problem is the hate overtime, takes too long to get to that functional level of hate based and the fact that one can overwrite the other. Coupled with the fact the hate mod on Valiant Healing is currently broken and it's just utterly terrible state we are in.
Cool story, I'll keep that in mind the next time you spout off something about warriors and zerkers being too much DPS, and how it's not fair.
