Actually Paladin's lack both. However I would rather click buttons to get and hold my agro. Harmonious is great in some situations but utterly useless in raids and a different spell can be a much better use on that limited spell bar.
Very entertaining thread with plenty of good suggestions, this damn popcorn sucks though. Bit disappointed that I haven't seen any buses yet, or Paladins throwing gnomes.
I'll attribute my personal experiences to luck and low sample size. Though I'll keep closer tabs on when it clears, wish FD/PP had a success message on successful aggro fade to assist tracking outside of the 1 minute clear message. After it started happening I adjusted my strategy to the aforementioned Protective and burn on paladin... so I only put up with aggro ganks for maybe a grand total of 5 or 6 times. It's possible the fade is 75%, I'll find out. Back to the other issues of AE, the total hate generated by lodestar amd beacon are not terrible, the problem is it takes Beacon 48s to achieve that hate because more than half the hate value is attributed to the Over time component. Lodestar overwriting Beacon disallows us from being able to use both simultaneously for a big bump. I am reiterating this because it's the most simple fix, if the Hate over time was compacted into say 2 ticks at most but created the same hate value in that time, it would go a long way towards helping. Barring that making the Hate over times stack (if I am remembering correctly this is a slot issue) would also help if duration reduction is out of the question. Currently I treat our AE hate as single target, whether or not I am pulling multiples because the boost over just spam spells is almost necessary. Which reminds me of the issues SKs had in COTF. Furthermore going to reiterate the fact if our Haye mod in valiant healing is producing next to no consistently measurable hate, when it should be generating full value on all mobs we are on the hate list of and in range of (can't remember how that mechanic works, there is a maximum range I want to say of 50' or something) If both of these fixes were implemented and the hate component of Harmonious raised to be within the ballpark of the others it would basically fix 90% of legitimate complaints about paladin aggro. Finally the group heal component of paladin harmonious is flavor enough, and,I know Aristo set the hate lower because of the stun, so I think it should be removed, it isn't helping us in anyway as other classes can just point at it and go "omg stunlock". None of these fixes addresses the grand scheme of are Harmonious type spells healthy for the game though, but I think alot of people would be happier if we just ignored that elephant in the room.
This has more to do with aggro then raw tankability. They could remove defensive proficiency from the game and this would still be an issue. And it's funny you act like this hasn't been the modus operandi of tanks for the last decade. I used to pull even more during VOA - COTF when I was endgame raid geared.
I think alot of people don't disagree with you doomcaster that its wierd to have tanks handle 10 mobs and make CC a total waste of time. However, when 2/3 tanks can do that, but the 3rd cannot (due to horrible agro), that is a problem with that 3rd class. All 3 tank classes should be able to perform the same in a group.
[47079/23518] Playing Possum V Classes: BST/254 Skill: Abjuration Endurance: 400 Target: Self Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes Focusable: Yes Casting: 0s 1: Feign Death (97% Chance) I know there were some changes with how the fades/fd worked with agro recently, and I believe it drops you to the bottom of the hate list, but not off until the 30 seconds. but I could be wrong on that.
It has a chance to drop you off the aggro list. But it doesn't automatically drop you to 1. Have had quite afew times where I would have to sit FD for abit. Then,I just stopped caring and popped defensive and found that is a preferable scenario for efficiency.
Seems like the paladins want their harmonious to be like the sk version where it's very very strong ae agro and pretty much unusable at raids on current content. Might as well just take all the harmonious spells out of the game. Automatically doing and AE agro spell when you get a heal is just a stupid mechanic. Would be much better to just give us an AE that we can cast and control ourselves. And the alliance spells are bad too. Everyone wanted for them to show who did the damage so they could get credit for the parse. Now that they get credit and pull agro from all the tanks, then die and complain that their hate on alliance spells needs to be capped, i disagree. You do that much damage, you should get the agro.
I hate Harmonious spells think it's bad design. However if your heal and tank team aren't ill equipped skill wise harmonious is far from unusable as an SK. Which is part of the problem and part the reason we are getting varying accounts on paladin aggro ability. If guild XYZ has a stout tank/heal team and has 2 or 3 SKS with Harmonious on, there isn't a prayer for the paladin. Then paladin comes here and complains. Meanwhile guild ABC does not have as skilled of healers/tanks, and doesn't allow their SKs to use harmonious, Their paladins have minimal problems grabbing aggro. SK then comes on here and responds to Paladin saying Git Gud. Neither of them is wrong in their belief, it's just an apples and oranges comparison.
I would disagree with you completely. Paladin Harmonious is well flat stupid and bad design with the stun. You cant pull with it so we loose agro there, have to cast it once the mob is positioned because of the stun component and then once mob is dead or changing to a new mob click it off because of the dumb stun. You cant even target a mob with it on in the event someone heals you and it fires a stun. Would it hurt my feelings if they deleted the Harmonious spells from game today or tomorrow? not one bit. I'm not sure why some are crying Paladin need more AE agro, could the class use a boost there yes, but we could use a boost in our single target agro way more to be functional. Have to agree biggest issue with some arguments are guild make ups and overall skill. If two of the three tank class can go all in and keep agro from one of the other tank classes using their tools while the other blows everything to get agro and have it still taken things are broken.
