I'm just trying to understand your perspective. From what you've said, bard is your favorite class. But you haven't even reached 70/80 or something, and you're writing off leveling up, because you think abilities you haven't gotten a chance to use aren't good enough.
Oh, I see. You're not interested in the actual state of the class (or my perspective). You're looking for an attack on credibility instead. Okay then.
Is it an invalid criticism? I don't know you, you tell me. If there are problems, they should be addressed. But if the issue is your feeling about things you haven't experienced let alone analysed, and not the things themselves, then a different approach is warranted.
You're still more concerned with who is saying it than what was said, so no other approach is warranted--especially when your comment was "...bards play 20 other songs besides Dicho..." which doesn't mean anything when they still can't do what they used to (in relativistic terms). They used to be a jack of all trades, able to do almost anything reasonably well, but nowhere near what other classes did in areas that those other classes specialized in: -Could tank a little bit for open world groups. Not suitable for proper dungeons or raids, but fine for leveling. -Used to have reasonably good melee dps. They would never be near a rogue, ranger, monk, beast lord, etc, but they certainly kept up well enough. Now they are one of the bottom tier dps, and their adps is questionable as to whether that's worth it over just another proper dps who can crush things. -They used to be able to aoe kite super well, and that's all but destroyed these days. -Their aoe dps was respectable, kiting or not. Now their combined total damage is unmentionable. -Much of their other utility was trivialized over time naturally because things like faction, merchant prices, disguises, etc are very seldom needed (if ever), and many clickies and potions exist that can serve that function anyway. Their flexibility was why they were so fun to play. Some situations called for a sword/shield, others need an instrument in the off-hand (another thing that's mostly gone from the class), others still needed you to dual wield. Sometimes you just kept a mob charmed and another mezzed during a fight instead of twisting buffs. They used to be great soloers. That's dead now. They have been relegated to buff-bots that also happen to be decent pullers. Sure, plenty of people run an afk melody-bot in some of their multi-box groups, but who even mains one anymore? As far as I can tell, most of them have quit, and some are considering it in light of the recent Dicho change (even with the nerf being dialed back some). It's not really about just this change, but how the class has degraded over the years. Of all classes, it was the one that was never meant to have a narrowly defined role.
Mocha is right that Bard mains are way down, while the number of people autofollowing with bard buff-bots on automelody is holding steady. That's a shame, from my perspective. Bards used to be a class played mostly as mains, and mostly by highly attentive players. He's also right that Bard DPS isn't what it used to be. As for Bard survivability, I find that it's actually OK, if highly gear-dependent. You can get up to a good 11.5k AC unbuffed in group gear if you go full AC augs, and at that point a bard as an off-tank in group content becomes a possibility. I think a lot of bards gear for stats that are just dumb. Your main goal as a bard is to survive until aggro is back where it's supposed to be, which means go full melee mitigation and worry about mana, etc. later. Bards are basically around to play proc, proc, haste, haste, or to play spell focus in a caster group. In group situations, occasional crowd control when you don't have a chanter or when things get hairy unexpectedly. That's pretty boring, and it is a drastically reduced version of their previous role.
When you say bard dps was good, I question who you played with that wasn't playing to their potential. When you say bard dps is bad, I question whether you're playing to your potential. Then & now, it's … okay! When you say bards could do this & that in groups in the past, I question why you stopped. A full weave used to be 3 songs, only hotshots did more, just hoping no one noticed the gaps (people noticed the gaps). If a bard was doing a charm thing & a mez thing, that meant the group wasn't getting their haste & tanking songs. Now there's room for way more between the key support ones if you want to be doing other things too, whether that's charms/tomfoolery, or nukes for higher personal dps.
Hopefully, when they adjust bard dicho mana up, they also do the same with Enchanter mindstorm spell. Admittedly the enchanter spell mana return was OP, but they seem to have overcorrected to the point where the spell is not really worth casting as a mana dot (still a great offensive dot though). The mindstorm nerf wasn't even announced so I have to assume it was an unintended consequence of other changes that they were making.
Struggling to take seriously the guy who apparently hasn't played a bard since 2003 or so, except in a six-box setup. Apparently you're just great at your bard in a six-toon setup and I suck at mine, which I play exclusively. "Same class is same. You probably just suck at it." Oh, OK. I hadn't thought of that.
Brohg is pretty much completely out of touch with reality at this point, it isn't personal. Dicho change pretty much leaves bards with the same thing they've always had, decent passive buffs (songs) great passive overhaste (aria) and incredibly low damage and 'meh' types of AA utility (quick time, fierce eye, epic) all of whose buffs have been watered down and passed around to multiple other classes.
Did dicho add at all to the playability factor? Was just another passive buff for your group. Tweak your melody macro, let it kick in every 60 seconds and keep doing the exact same thing you had been doing. Infinite mana was broken. Hard to argue that was intended. Nerf was way overboard. We've yet to see where the tweak of the nerf lands. Regardless, dicho did not change how a bard is played. Just made people want you for infinite mana. Not going to argue you have a gripe about playability and fun factor. I don't play a bard other than an occasional melody bot, I couldn't say one way or the other. But that's an entirely different topic. This nerf was more of a kick in the pants on top of lingering issues that in reality really changed nothing about playing a bard.
It was quality of life more than anything in my opinion, it made other classes lives easier which in turn made the bard the obvious option for several group make-ups (essentially anything with mana) personally I see nothing wrong with this but apparently a load of others did. Infinite mana doesn't mean you disc properly, heal when you're supposed to or follow raid mechanics properly. I can go outside where I live and in any season and at any point of the year I could plant and grow in the native soil, this doesn't innately make everyone who lives where I do a farmer. If your argument is it needed to be changed because a small percentage of the player population knew how to abuse maybe? That is even more ridiculous, there's easily a tier list of issues and how this was anywhere near the top is absolutely astounding. Edit, wording.
Seriously, some of you need to take a pill and RELAX. The original point of the thread was to raise issue that the dicho was over-corrected in the last patch. The issue was addressed and Dzarn responded informing us of what the reasonable adjustments will be for the next full patch. All this other stuff is WAY WAY WAY off base and has nothing to do with what the thread was about. Everyone has different opinions about bards, their viability, the fun factor, etc etc... All those who are currently moaning and complaining, you're getting your way!!! So what are you griping about?
Here let me show you that this is wrong. As for Mind Storm being useless (aside from damage you said), that is inaccurate too. I suggest you have a gander over here for some additional information. Mind storm is just fine the way it is. PS - The only spot currently where it is not worth casting is a group situation with 4-6 members with high dps. And it wasn't viable pre-change to cast in that situation anyways due to how fast things died. So just nuke and go about your business in this scenario.
Bards are getting the same blow back as many other classes, mainly there is no reason to utilize all they can bring in terms of utility. It used to be they were pullers and crowd control on raids. Now they are just stuck in the role of being mostly ADPS. Their personal dps didn't matter much in the past because they were off from the raid pulling while others killed trash. The same with monks. Rogues don't have any special role either, again because raids are so simple and compact now with outcomes determined in mere minutes. SK's don't need to kite nor rangers. Either you tank, dps or heal. The same can apply to a lesser extend in the group game. Its a side effect of what is probably a good thing over all, in that the hours of trash clear are mostly a thing of the past and the current clears are old content given a retread. The downside is that raids really only need warriors, healers and wizards now....with a few token classes to buff and provide adps. What used to be seen as benefits and strengths are now used as slights in class balancing. The end result is classes get all the negative of utility, mainly reduced dps in exchange for skills that have little to no relevance in current content. Thus some classes really have a right to feel that they are being kicked while they are already down.
When I need mez CC and mana regen, I choose an Enc for a caster-heavy group or a Bard for a melee-heavy group... the only thing that has changed with the Dichotomic Psalm nerf is that Enchanter is actually back in the lineup for caster-heavy groups! For the last year it was Bard for everything and anything. Again, my Bard using only support songs does around 50% of the sustained DPS that I do with Ranger or Beastlord. If you drop the support songs and use only personal DPS songs, it can get closer, but will never match. Considering all the awesome things that Bards do, I'm ok with that. It's always frustrating to see people exaggerate their position to such extremes that they can't be taken seriously, ironically thinking it makes their position stronger, somehow not realizing they could dial back the doom and gloom and people might listen to them. Bards are NOT broken or anywhere remotely close to being a bad class. If bards weren't relevant, then guilds wouldn't be bringing 5+ of them to every raid, and asking for more and more of them in recruitment threads. They aren't over the top strong and could surely use some adjustments, but jeez people.
Says people exaggerate the uselessness of bards while doing exactly that to enchanters, then preaches about being taken seriously. k
