Our biggest dps burn discs are Copsestalkers Discipline and Empowered blades. Both of these are a flat damage increase per hit. So the faster the weapon the more hits. When you have a 10 delay weapon vs a 22 delay, you are getting considerably more hits with the same flat damage modifier. Its the same principle with a 19 delay vs a 22 delay, you will need a bit more raw damage on the 22 delay weapon to overcome the flat damage modifier of the discs since there are less hits in the same amount of time. From parses, the best weapon in the primary is the CotF 19 delay piercers, and its up to debate, but I have found that putting the efreeti standard with a proc damaging aug produces more damage than a CotF piercer in off hand. Of course this is roughly 6 minutes out of every 18. Long fights, the new weapons with better ratios will be used during the other 12 minutes. But the 6 minutes of dps is far superior to the other 12. That is why most rangers are peaking in damage once they are CotF T1 equipped, while their is some damage increase beyond, its not going to impact dps burns and will be moderate in non burn situations. Ruven
I wouldnt go as far as saying monks need a boost what we need nore than anything is a timer reduction.
Rangers are in a terrible situation* with recent expansion slower weapons to the point where faster weapons from older (sometimes much, MUCH older) zones in the game are actually a DPS upgrade at least some of the time. Devs are aware and feel that the option of using faster piercers (not even as fast as H2H or Rogue weapons but not 22 delay either) in older expansions was "a mistake". * And Bards. I think Bards have long since given up doing any DPS whatsoever though and are just happy to be contributing to others. Rangers haven't quite given up completely yet but it's not far off I fear.
Why would anyone want to play a melee dps if they want to compete in raid dps? You get all the disadvantages: ae ramp, having to be near the mob to dps, mostly burst dmg ... The devs really need to take a serious look at the problem. Well first they need need to acknowledge there is one.
Rangers may not be top of the dps pile, but they are very versatile. They have "OK" mitigation (not tank levels, but well above pure dps class levels), the choice of dps from melee or from range (ber/rog/mnk range dps is *DIRE*), plus a whole host of buffs, debuffs, and even some light healing. Given the jack of all trades nature, why would you expect them to be doing great on DPS? They're doing sufficient IMO. Clearly above the one-trick non dps classes like tanks and healers, and clearly behind the one-trick pure dps classes like wiz, rog and ber. Some slight rebalancing of those in the middle ground is in order, but it's not total woe, woe and thrice woe that people paint.
Its not just monks and rangers all melee are behind and getting blown completely out of water with what has been done to wizards all melee needs to brought up in line to be competitive. Its a sad state of affair when monks used to get 1mill kicks and now nothing highest is barely 600k and I see wizards getting 1mill crit blast all the time!
I would agree that we could use a few timer reductions. However in my opinion monks are at where we should be all things considered or close to it given what we have in our tool kit. As for monks not being competitive is complete bull and it depends on the player and the players that work with them a dollop of luck with the random number generator never hurts either. Most of it though is it is all about timing and skill(yes something some monks lack because they are lazy or do not feel the need to know what stacks and what doesn't, Infusion of Thunder overwriting Fierce Eye pops to mind as I'm typing this out.) To finish this post though I would say any melee DPS summed up in one phrase would be, "You can't have a symphony if you do not have all the key parts being played at the proper times."
survival-wise, i'd just like to point out shield of fate/consequence and the other various rune from wiz-mage-necro vastly outperform anything a monk or ranger can bring to defend himself... unless you somehow end up weaponshield tanking...
Some classes are versatile but always took innate hits due to that versatility. Be it in the form of stats, skill caps, dps, whatever. Now that versatility has been largely farmed out (everyone can basically fd/fade, root/snare, gate etc in some form) there's even less of a reason than before to have hybrids. Try being an sk - at least dps stacks alright for dps types on raids, even if rangers do less, it rarely hurts to have too much dps. In many cases tanking doesn't, and sk are in the same boat...very little reason to want more than one in raids. Its a problem that stems from lack of diverse content in raids, and lack of content in general, but I sympathize. Seems to me like when they created beast lords, much of the "good" hybrid buffing concepts went there too, ranger buffs are correspondingly pretty bland and pointless.
If you think rangers are fine now, that there lies the problem, they do not scale up with the current expansion as other classes will. If new wizard spells did less dps after obtaining 105 focus items than the previous expansion while burning, you could imagine the uproar on the boards. But when rangers are in the same boat of using prior expansion weapons over new ones, we are being told our damage is sufficient based on our flexibility? Ruven
pretty sure every class had an uproar moment in the last 2 years. Wizards right now are probably just happy with enchanter chromatic haze, putting us almost back to RoF T3 lvl of dps.
It's real simple folks. RoI has been the server-wide "Top Guild" for quite a while now. They *get* max DPS out of the classes - period. Even on easy "farm status" events they max out dps - to farm more in a night. When Shang ranks class DPS based on RoI parses - that's good enough for me. -R
You're correct that it's important to know how to do things in the right order however when just about every raid guild sees monks behind that indicates a trend unless you think most raid monks don't do things right. I don't believe that's the case.
I do not think that most raid monks do things wrong, I believe most raid monks do things exceptionally well. I was making a more general statement then anything else, although I have seen some right lazy monks that don't even pay attention... Nonetheless, we do have issue's. Most of it could be corrected with a few tweaks to timer's personally in my opinion and an upgrade to one or two DPS discs that would have actually been useful to monks would have helped balance instead of more stagnation.
A hybrid means nothing anymore. Every single class has some utility these days and is basically a hybrid. What utility does a ranger bring to raids? We have an emergency heal, one shot-long recast. We have some CC tools for mobs that are not immune to snare/root. A lot of classes can do this. We have auspice(which someone mentioned in an earlier post has really dropped off in dps boost). We have 3rd spire-bleh, but ok its there. We have the ability to range fight better than other melee classes. In group content, pets tank better than us, even raid geared, not to mention my crap geared enchanter and a few other non tank classes. We should tank as well as pets but not compete with SK or paladins. I like suggestions people have put out here though. Should be easy fixes. Give us access to 19 delay weapons(preferably some 1hs also), give a ranger specific shield to tank with(that would drop our dps while tanking in groups, and boost Auspice.
I don't doubt the RoI players all know their stuff and are in the top 10% gamewide, but to say they are the top for every class is a bit egotystic. Who knows, maybe they are, maybe they aren't. No one can really claim it. Also, I don't personally feel that such a guild is actually a helpful data point. It's nice to know what can be achieved with perfect ADPS sync up and playing the class to the max, but it's not the norm alas. It skews the fight lengths to be shorter than the average guild, which in turn makes some sustained dps classes look weaker than they really are on average and some burst classes look stronger.
It is helpful because we can say what X class does at their best or near it. But I've said many times that I really want to cut down the ADPS requirements that some of us need because it's kind of ridiculous to lose that much when you lack a certain class, or classes. This is important because some classes do a lot more with nothing than others, which is part of why so many of certain classes exist. Please note rangers are special, it's always a highly played class but with headshot being good for so long there are about 500 for every 1 of every other class. That's why some guilds have 20, it's insane.
If any of your rangers are tired of being overcrowded, we could use one! We have 2 rangers right now! Quick edit: Except Shang
