DPS for a few classes

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Raynrace, Dec 11, 2014.

  1. Raynrace Augur

    I'm sure I'll be flamed to hell and back on this but Monks and Rangers need an increase to DPS output.

    This no improvement in 3 expansions now is crazy. Bring us in line with the other melee and hybrid classes please.

    If Rangers couldn't Auspice a raid we would have no reason to be there like monks currently have none.

    Getting tired of this crap...

    Give the people with a decade plus time invested in their characters a reason to continue playing.

    Monks need a real freaking aura. Maybe you can give all classes an aura.... something to say hey we need this class.
    Elricvonclief likes this.
  2. sojero One hit wonder

    Where are your monks and rangers placing on your raids?

    Please give some data to back up your claims, and I have seen rangers and Monks doing very good recently.
  3. Raynrace Augur

    It's the Wiz Zerk Rog show. Monks should be close to rogues and berserkers. Rangers should be close to beasts. I consider myself aware of dps but can't match beasts and monks hold no candle to rogues and berserkers.

    Why even have the class in the raid?
    Elricvonclief likes this.
  4. Zanarnar Augur

    Maybe your BST are really good, or your in need of a little tuning to your rotation? I know at least to the end of COTF the Rangers in my raiding alliance and I were always right on-top of each other dps wise. (Now most of them had a good 5K more AA then my BST had, but what I'm missing is mostly defensive/pet healing/pet defensive AA's so DPS wise that gap shouldn't matter much)

    Or maybe I just sucked as a beastlord ;) I would add that the few monks we had were always at the top of the parse too... also keep in mind some classes have shorter, more intense burns, where ranger ones tend to last a bit longer, so on ~90sec burns I wouldn't be surprised to see those classes edge you out, but extend that to 2min+ and you'll pull ahead. (at least in my experience)
  5. sojuu Augur

    I do find myself struggling to keep up with rogues now but I also see that as a tradeoff since as a monk I am more durable.
  6. Raynrace Augur

    I don't want to put up beastlord numbers and get them nerfed but I'll do 160k plus dps on short burns and hold 70k on a long burn. This requires perfect adps coordination.

    Monks I flat out feel sorry for.
    Elricvonclief likes this.
  7. sojero One hit wonder

    Z A N A R N A R hows it going :)

    As he says our rangers do good DPS, so do our monks, when we have monks, they seem to have FD'd somewhere and forgotten how to get up!. We only have 1 rouge on our raids most the time, and he is always near the top. We don't have any Zerkers, and our wizards seem to have ported out of Norath for a while. We average about 1 mil dps and a Nec is our top dps. Our best rangers are pulling out 70-90k dps and our monks close to there. But we had 7 mages last time I looked on the raid! I should say that all our fights take a while, we don't really do short burns very often, our burns are usually at the 90-150 second range if we are lucky.

    The main point is our rangers are always busy be in vine lashing, DPS, or another duty, we have tons of reasons to bring them on raids. Don't try and justify yourself by your dps, justify it by what your total package brings to the raid. Monks on the other hand seem to be more luck based on their kicks, but still bring a good amount of DPS to the raid.
  8. Zanarnar Augur

    heh yup, confirmed I just sucked. I'd get to 100K on short (under 90sec) burns, I think my high-water mark was ~ 120K on Glimpse. (In a mix of T1-T4 RoF raid gear with a couple pieces of T1 CoTF), and my long-burn numbers were closer to 60K (~50K or less on 3+ min fights). Generally though, we have no Zerkers and few bards on raids so I can't say I've been in a perfect adps group often.

    Hopefully if its really a big a gap as you say they do some fixing. Sadly knowing SoE it will just be nerf nerf nerf till everyone is mediocre!

    (edit: /waves hi to soj! Hope things are still going well on the progression front!!)
  9. Behelit Augur

    just wait till you're only doing TDS events, you're Zerkers wont be doing much of anything
  10. Aggememnon Elder

    Right now we are getting back to the position we were in a couple of expansions ago, where rog/zerks were too far out in front, and monks were having trouble outparsing hybrids. Then it went the other way, and monks were coming out in front of rogs, in particular, a little too often. Queue the multiple sustained boosts for rogues....

    2 years ish on, and we are back to square one. But in my opinion before you do anything, you need to:
    1. Fix the AE bug which has been long known, and a fix promised, but its just not on the horizon. Please stop dragging your heels on this and fix it. Or else unnerf the monk destructive force. It still won't be as powerful (short on range and duration).
    2. Give monks an equivalent to decapitate and assasinate. It was mentioned in the monk chat, and we were told you would consider it (iirc). But since then nothing has happened. This type of ability *is* making a difference to dps, especially on 'wave' events...

    And I'm still miffed that we had no reply to putting monks onto the slow proc belt (see melee section). I don't see any need to exclude us there.
  11. Cicelee Augur

    I am 100% confident Ring of Valor is doing current TDS raid content :)

    BTW thanks for not bringing up magicians. They are overrated.
  12. Behelit Augur

    key word was "only", Zerkers can do well in CotF events still but they aren't parsing worth a dam in TDS. so the OP must be referencing CotF parses (likely t2) if he's complaining about a "Wiz/Rog/Zerk show".
  13. Esero Elder

    Basically this.

    Curious if/when something will be done about this given the current divide between casters( wiz/necro)/melee as it is - an 'un'nerf, as you say, might be the most logical solution but duration/re-use will be complicated by the fact that (if adjusted to do what rakes/furious do) monks don't have the restriction on 1h/2h like zerk/rogue respectively.
  14. sojuu Augur

    Agreed the ae ability still needs a fix.
    i would rather not have a decap ability because to get it were loosing dps somewhete else. Why have it then?
    the belt dont care much about its not really needed nor should every class get everything
  15. Ronthorn Oakenarm Augur

    It is Wizard/Necro Mages/Rogue>>Zerker>> Beastlord/Monks>>> Rangers in IL, and we are not doing Vinelash duties or any of the sort a few snares on two events is all (and there are many classes that can snare). Hell i could live with this placement even if our Buffs were made to be better then they are, go ahead and parse Ranger attack buffs out sometime if you like, and i think you will be shocked at how little they actually bring (i am talking sub 60 dps). I do know how to play my class and i play it well so does every other player in IL. (we do have a crap-load of wizards and mages though). This is not every fight but most of them and the DPS gap between these classes is quite large the further down you go in my list.

    Yeah we survive better like Monks but when a round kills you a round kills you no matter if it was 3 hits or it took all 5 your still dead. If we survived enough better that it counted i would also be fine with these dps placements.

    Oh and Monks can have Ranger Headshot that is about as useless on Raids as Teets on a Boar! Assassinate/Decapitation would be far better and the better of those last Two by far is Decapitation. We have 3 active Rangers and lots of the time 2 are sitting, we have 4 active Monks and 1 sits at times, No Wizards or Necros or Mages or Rogues have sit in the last month or so unless they missed some raids and lacked the needed Keys for faster Progression. The game has really gotten messed up they need to bring back Burst and Sustained and remove this Burststained that several classes think they are entitled to.


    I did want to edit in as its a little important that Rangers seldom get optimal DPS groups in IL though.
  16. Esero Elder

    I feel similarly about assassinate - it's nice in trivial content but in current raid content it's few and far between; from a tuning standpoint I prefer it that way.

    There are 3 trash mobs before/during Arx 2 engage that I can pad my parse on - rogues are fine ^.^
  17. Ratbo Peep Augur

    Actually Rangers need a few more AA to UPGRADE Auspice. It's overall net value has been diminishing for a couple expansions now. It really needs to get back up to speed as it remains our best "selling point" on raid teams.
    I do agree that Ranger DPS (particularly in the Raid Game) needs a tweak.

    -Rat
    (That said - this has nothing to do with my pet peeve that Ranger mitigation of incoming damage needs some help in the Group Game. A Ranger only shield and some more ranks of Shield Block would fix that end easily enough. (Ro was a good start though). This would not really impact the Raid Game at all - because in that venue a Ranger MUST duel-wield.)
  18. Ruven_BB Augur

    Unfortunately these comparisons aren't the same across the board. Given Ring of Valor is currently the top raiding guild on Bristlebane, I am assuming Raynrace is addressing end game classes playing at top performance on the latest content.

    With SoE's latest raid focus on high DPS for success, utility that doesn't improve dps or help keep tanks alive gets thrown out and what you can bring to drop a mob is essential.

    Our guild rangers clean up in the parses, but we don't pull the total raw dps numbers as a raid as the top tiered guilds, since we lack wizards, rogues and zerkers. Rangers are an easy fix, it was discussed in beta, drop the fixed 22 delay weapons (let us have 19 delay raid weapons) and give us an upgrade to focused blades that we didn't get this round.

    Monks need some boosts as well.

    Ruven
  19. Elskidor Augur

    At some point the Everquest Ranger jokes quit making sense, and being such a staple in Everquest history, Rangers are suppose to be returning to their glory days. It was unintentional to ever let them begin to shine and outclass anyone.
    Obiziana likes this.
  20. sojero One hit wonder

    You have to balance though between dps/utility raid/group. The dev team wont give you everything, so mentally eliminating one wont actually do you any good. The other stuff is what you bring as well as your dps, like it or not.