Constructive feedback on Mangler and Selo

I think the overwhelming amount of threads on these upcoming servers shows a high level of interest. While the devs discuss what changes, if any, to make to the announced servers, I think we should discuss what can be done to make sure each server survives.


FV Rules – I think it is clear that most people are for FV rules on one of both of the servers. This allows casual players to pick up key pieces for their class as well as gives hardcore players a way to make money from all their invested efforts in the raids.

Exp Gain – I think fast experience would be best for both servers. If the dev’s goal is to keep people giving them money for subs as long as possible, fast experience makes rolling alts or joining the server late much more palatable.

Unlock – Selo’s unlock is way too quick. Within a few months of Selo’s opening with it’s currently announced ruleset, a new player would be better served joining a live server where everything is already open and exp rates are higher. Any casual or hardcore player coming to this server after launch will have considerable difficulty to catch up to run current content when you factor in the time needed for leveling, gear, and aa’s.

Initial Expansion – Classic or Kunark should be the opening expansion for both of the servers. These are time locked progression servers and I think the vast majority of players anticipate a classic content launch. To be far, the people that have done these TLP’s over and over again are correct that classic gets stale quickly. I would like to see servers starting with classic have a slightly reduced timeframe until Kunark is opened. I think that would give the people their classic launch but not hold other players hostage for 12 weeks raiding hate, fear, and 2 dragons over and over and over.

The problem –

If the devs bump Mangler experience to a reasonable amount (Agnarr or Selo levels) and double or triple the Selo expansion unlocks, then the servers will be too similar, and whichever one starts in classic will likely be the sole survivor.

I would like to see FV rules given to the classic start server personally to differentiate the servers.
What other changes can be made to give the servers a different feel? Or to make one server a race server? If all things were equal, I think whichever server has faster exp would be the clear choice for hardcore and casual alike.

This seems pretty simple to me. Leave Selos the way it is. Lots of people seem excited about it. As for the other server, rename it Ensnare. Same rules as Selos except, give it Agnarr exp rate. Start it in Classic. Give it 4 month unlocks. Then you have a speed racer server and a go slow and smell the roses server.

There you go daybreak, Hire this man.

Please do not change Selos much if at all. It's nearly PERFECT. Slight increase in unlocks I could stomach, but honestly I think this is a case of players don't really know what they want. They always ask for longer unlocks, then get bored, complain, and quit when they get them.

Keep the unlocks short. Do not change anything else about Selos. I have a guild of people absolutely PUMPED for this new ruleset.

Holly & Crew literally knocked it out of the park with this one. We have been so excited for this new ruleset. Don't cave to the vocal minority.

Hey look ONE person with this opinion. Sorry bud thanks for playing. But the majority wants FV loot on Selo's.

It doesn't really matter what they name Mangler unless they change it's experience rate. It will have a lower population that Coirnav and good luck with future recruitment there.

Hardcore guilds don't want it, casual guilds don't want it.

Adding my feedback as it seems the community manager may be monitoring this thread. To keep it brief, here are my opinions.

Hearing about the ultra casual TLP made me consider re subscribing. After reading the selo rule set I likely will not.

Pros
Fresh TLP
Faster XP

Cons
1 month unlocks
Skips my favorite content (classic, kunark, velious)
All items nerfed around luclin unobtainable

My play time is ultra casual. My favorite content is pre luclin. I would be left so far behind on selos, I may as well FTP on live.

Again, waaay too many requests that could lead them confused and changing everything too drastically to both. Selo is getting mostly good feedback so probably lock it in and work to create a better Mangler. Selo isn't perfect but the next slew of changes might just screw that up. Mangler becomes the casual with faster XP and maybe FV. Boxing changes still seem too controversial, although it seems like a great deal would enjoy a non-truebox too. This place is a circus.

take the krono out of game or make it no trade on this server . Selo

I am here to voice my displeasure over the new servers.

Mangler is not enough different than Phin or Corinav which makes it not special.

Selos is to fast and could have at least had FV no trade(or heirloom all no trade) rules allowing alts to use old gear.

Not everyone wants a classic start. They gave you classic starts with the last dozen TLPs and gave you yet another with Mangler. I agree it’s idiotic of them to have slow XP on mangler, that basically guarantees that it will fail, but that doesn’t mean they should ruin Selos too and make everyone unhappy

There is nothing casual about going thru classic again for months at a time between unlocks. That is not desirable in any way to most of the casuals I know, we don’t want to have to travel on foot all over the world or beg for ports just to get to a group or deal with an overcrowded and competitive LGuk zone. We want to log on and be able to get a lot done in a relatively short period of time and Selos provides that

You aren’t their target demographic they’re after because you’ll all be leaving to WoW Classic anyways.

I think a few things can be summarized from this thread so far.

1. Slow experience rate is a bad idea for any server
Nobody wants slow experience rates on either server. It doesn't do anything other than frustrate your customers and ends up leading to many just giving up on the servers you implement slow experience rates on.

2. Some players want to start in Classic and some want to start in some other expansion
While I heavily prefer the classic start because for me, that IS the nostalgia that TLP offers, there is a camp of those players for which desire to start in some future expansion. Since DBG is offering two new servers in this round of TLP servers, it would be best if one server starts in Classic and the other start in an expansion (Luclin seems fine for that crowd honestly).

3. Fast unlocks does not work for casual gamers
If a casual gamer is going to not keep up with the expansion curve on the server they are playing on, than there is no reason for that person to play on a TLP server. They can get that same experience of being "behind the curve" by playing on a Live server. Therefore, there is no reason to associate a casual gamer with someone that doesn't mind being behind.

Taking in to account that casual players ON A TLP SERVER don't want to be behind on the server, than it is a natural conclusion that a casual TLP server should not have fast expansion unlocks.

4. Fast unlocks do work for hardcore gamers
Fast unlocks create a scenario where gamers are competing to see who can beat the content the fastest and most efficient on the server. That is what being a hardcore MMORPG player is all about. Hardcore may mean more painful or time consuming in other genres, but in the MMORPG industry, hardcore means beating content first.

5. Casual gamers want to experience everything in the game, but at a relaxed rate
Being a casual MMORPG gamer does not mean you don't want to put the time and effort in to accomplishing everything in the game. It simply means that you have a limited amount of time available to put towards that goal.

Casual gamers still want to achieve everything in the game, and they want to achieve it in era. If they didn't care about completing everything in era, than they would play on a Live server because it wouldn't matter what era the server was in when they achieve it. This includes completing the most sacred of EverQuest achievements including EPIC 1.0 quests which means that at the very minimum, a casual server should start no later than the Kunark expansion.

There is no perfect unlock period that will make ever expansion casual friendly. The expansions have varied levels of difficulty, complexity, and time required to accomplish the goals of that expansion. Therefore, on an ultra-casual TLP server, the expansion unlocks should be set to an appropriate time period for that expansion.

For example, classic EverQuest should not be any longer than one month long. Kunark on the other hand should be two months long because of the complexity of the epic 1.0 quests. Legacy of Ykesha should be about two weeks, and Lost Dungeons of Norrath should be two weeks long.



Suggested Unlock Shedules

Hardcore server:

1. Once a month

Casual server:

1. Classic = 1 month
2. Kunark = 2 months
3. Velious = 2 months
4. Luclin = 2 months
5. Planes of Power = 2 months
6. Legacy of Ykesha = 2 weeks
7. Lost Dungeons of Norrath = 2 weeks
8. Gates of Discord = 2 months
9. Omens of War = 2 months
10. Dragons of Norrath = 1 month
11. Depths of Darkhollow = 2 months
12. Prophecy of Ro = 1 month
13. The Serpents Spine = 3 months
14. The Buried Sea = 2 month
15. Secrets of Faydwer = 3 months
16. Seeds of Destruction = 3 months
17. Underfoot = 4 months
18. House of Thule = 3 months
19. Veil of Alaris = 3 months
20. Rain of Fear = 3 months
21. Call of the Forsaken = 3 months
22. The Darkened Sea = 3 months
23. The Broken Mirror = 1 month
24. Empires of Kunark = 3 months
25. Ring of Scale = 3 months
26. The Burning Lands = 3 months

The Mangler Progression Server will be a more hardcore server that is tuned to feel similar to the original EverQuest launch - perfect for those who are looking for a challenge. Experience rates will be slightly lower than those on other Progression Servers, and players will lose more experience on death.

I can't properly describe the level of confusion I feel when I read this on the server Faq. There is literally nothing challenging about Mangler. Xp loss? my goodness. They should just scratch it and go "ultra casual", ya know like their initial announcement Lol.

All the blowback is over Mangler

All the blowback I've read is over Mangler. Selo doesn't need any changes. My first gut reaction was to play Selo but after digesting everything, even if nothing changes I'll either go on Mangler and see if I can stomach slow xp and Lamebox… on the same server.. Or just stay on RF/Xegony.

Agreed on this! I've played on every TLP server over the years at least through PoP, typically further. But the xp grind on Coirnav had me drop out at L43. I've done the grind since the early days and even put up with it through Phinny but I just can't anymore.

I'd play on both. Selos through Omens and Mangler long term. But I won't touch Mangler at all with those kind of xp rates.

I love reading someone writing the "experience" of Selos from a "Casuals" perspective, then writes out a bulleted list of events that only a hardcore player would do.

Do you think that maybe you are just writing about what a hardcore player would do in Selos?

Casuals are not playing to compete with other guilds, casuals are not competeting for best in slot, casuals are there to visit areas they may have never been before and are probably better geared and more powerful than when they would have seen the content in-era, so they are able to have an easier experience in the game.

If you are "I NEED BIS, I NEED MAX LEVEL NOW, I NEED ALL RAID FIGHTS TO HAPPEN IN ERA WITH MY GUILD", then congrats! You joined Mangler. Have fun!

I logged in just to give Daybreak a big, fat...

/facepalm

Personally, after seeing what they came up with. I'm just done wondering about even trying a TLP anymore. I was actually considering re-subbing 2 accounts to play causally on the ultra causal server but I just don't see one available. Going to have to just play on the server I enjoy when I find time again.

It’s only insane if you actually believe that you have to keep up with the unlocks and have all BIS gear, max level and AAs before the next expansion hits. I’m going to enjoy seeing all the new expansions and Zones. If I have to farm GE gate or OC/IC one more time I’ll explode. Selos will provide the ultimate variety and fast leveling. That is exciting to me.

I'll simply ignore the Try Hards who think this is a race server. They won’t matter after about 2 months when they’re burning themselves out on the next expansion trying to maintain a 7 day a week raid schedule because they think that is how the game is supposed to be played and don’t understand that they make up maybe 2% of a hardcore playerbase. I’ll be enjoying myself leveling in new zones, raiding on my own schedule and actually playing some Alts since it won’t take 20 hours of play time just to get to level 10 anymore

They’re going to make a lot of money off players like me. I spend a lot on XP potions and I’ll still use XP potions on Selos cause I like making more efficient use of my time. I’ll also use XP potions on Alts now too, where as on Coirnav I used my 2nd box account as a permanent bazaar mule because I refused to level an alt because of how BRUtALLY slow it was

I’ll end up buying a $40 bag bundle for 2 accounts on Selos, that would have never happened on Coirnav. I’ll have 2 subs for at least 1-2 years so I can see the new expansions that I’ve never played before. On coirnav, I was going to burn out on PoP because I was already getting there in Luclin due to my guild morphing from a casual 3 raids a week guild to a hardcore 7 night a week raiding guild... and coirnav will be in PoP for 6 months which is an absurdly long time.

I want to see OoW and beyond, I would have never made it to those expansions on Coirnav or on Mangler

What makes you think you will have anyone looking to do OOW with you 3 months after the server moved past that expansion?

The only way would be coming in with a present raid/guild that planned it out, which is not very casual.

Alternitevly you might mean explore the expansion solo on your own, which you can already do on any live server