That's actually kind of similar to an ability Pallies in EQ2 get. They can put a buff on a party member that transfers a percentage of all of that party member's agro to the Pally. Not sure that EQ1 has the code in place for such a mechanic, though, especially since group makeup is very different. Really all of the tanks should have some version of the SK's Gift of ___ line that provides an in-combat VoT-esque buff for themselves.
All of the tanks have abilities that increase hate VoT style. Warriors: Dichotomic Shielding increases hate by 100%, Rage of the Forsaken increases hate by 80%, Warlord’s Fury increases hate by 25%. Paladins: Preservation of Rodcet increases hate by 15%. Some of the problems with hate mod on the Paladin buff is it’s short duration, limited to hit counters so never hits that duration when you’d actually need it, long cast time so can’t get it off mid battle and doesn’t stack with Druid reptile line as has already been stated earlier in thread. Personally, I’m not a fan of hate increase abilities and wish it would have just stayed VoT and Hate glyph. Factoring them in just makes balance more complicated IMO
That's why I think they should all have a version of the SK one. If all 3 tanks have the same hate mod buff (with same duration and restrictions), then there's no real balance change, other than a slight boost to Pallies.
it was an example, dont focus on the aggro part focus on the interaction. it could be dps or ac or anything. run with it and be creative. dont just jump in and say no.
Redemption, I was more so responding to Syylke on his hate mod buff recommendation. Regarding your idea on tank synergies etc. I play as well as high end raid on a Paladin, Warrior and Shadowknight. So I definitely wouldn’t mind what you’re stating. I think synergies/alliances of that nature would be good for game to inspire different group formats and better raid coordination
If there are multiple tank classes in a group for group content, presumably one is tanking and the other is DPS. Maybe a second synergy that is triggered off one of the DPS combat abilities rather than Spurn, yeah? I forget what paladins have... Condemnation strike? Shadowknights get Wounding Blade at level 107, which is a 2H slash attack once every minute. That could proc a different synergy more geared toward DPS, maybe. It also opens up the idea of all classes having multiple synergies, which could be fun. But I am biased.. I'm a synergy junkie. Seeing all those synergies stack up in the short-duration buffs window excites me
The Aurora line needs a massive boost. Wave level 109 is capable of critting for 240k hps and has the same mana cost and cast time as Aurora which cannot crit and is capped at approx 60k total to one player or spread out to 10k for each player in the group. Its really a big joke. No idea why Aurora is even listed as a quick heal if it is no faster than the other Waves. If Aurora was capable of healing for 300k, thats still only 50k per toon if all 6 need it, compared to the potential to crit for 240k+ for each player in group on Wave, it is really very hard to even justify loading Aurora. It is supposed to function similar to cleric epic 2.0 and divine arb in theory right? It is just doing a really terrible job at it. I get that the paladin spell that I can chain cast should not be better than Divine Arb or Epic 2.0 that have several minute recast timers, but Aurora needs massive adjustment to even be something to burn one of our 13 spell slots on. If its supposed to be a quick heal it needs to be set to .3 sec cast time, and boosted at the very least to 240k hps spread to the group (40k each) or 120k to the individual if noone else needs heals.
I like the idea of synergies between different classes. It doesn't even have to necessarily be a specific class, it could be 2 tanks for example. And they don't have to be as strong a alliances, but a nice nuke or some short duration group DPS buff or something like that could be cool. Of course, this is more of an overall game design request rather than specific to Paladins, so might be better off in its own thread.
You cannot have most or nearly all your aggro and tanking abilities instant cast. You would be overpowered. Warriors have instant cast abilities, but pay the price of being a pure melee class by having awful to non existent self healing. Each archetype needs to have its advantages and drawbacks. If you eliminate most of the drawbacks of one class and transform it into nearly only advantages, you become overpowered. Make 1 to 2 abilities insta cast sure, but not all. SHD and PAL have mitigation too. Also, what are "shouts" ? The paladin brings tanking in a group.
Warriors have a few things that benefit the group. Commanding Voice (+ % dodge), Field Protector (AC), AA Imperator tools (different effects, can be end / mana regen or HP or DPS increase). Shield Break effect too helps all the group I think.
Dichotomic Shielding is used for its mitigation effect part. I never click it for its aggro part. Rage of the Forsaken last only 12 sec. 2 min refresh. Warlord Fury is the only ability that last enough long, 3 min. These abilities are handy in this expansion for us because our single target aggro has massively stagnated. They are useful to allow us to keep an edge when needed. Boost yours if you want, but ours are perfectly fine.
Shouts are just an ability line that has been out since what, Reign of Fear? Noone expects everything that a paladin does to be instant cast. The Crush line needs to be instant and is long over due.
Oh tormenting shout line ? Then it's the name of one spell line, not a "class defining" ability. Well not like it's important for this debate, but thanks for the precision. And I appreciate your answer about instant abilities.
I could have found a more descriptive label. They've added shout style descriptions to a lot of the warrior abilities as flavor text. I group all my misc stuff as "shouts", but that's probably an idiosyncrasy of mine. Rallying Roar line (decrease accuracy also agro tool) Commanding voice (adds dodge, really negligible) Field Champion line (increase group ac) War Cry (fear resist) Call of Challenge (runner control) Lionhearted Rally (AoE fear + snare) I doubt it. There's a difference between casting time and refresh. Also, I did not say "all abilities instant cast". I said PAL needs them as well. But I bet if you excluded direct heals, you could make 90% of it instant cast and it wouldn't change much. All the abilities discussed have recast timers on them, or could have them added. I was speaking about WAR ability to scale up mitigation or outright deny damage. Flash of Anger. Pain Don't Hurt. No Time to Bleed. Shield Topple. Blade Guardian. Etc. Notice all these abilities have recast timers. I distinctly said stacking here. Specifically what happens when you add a paladin to any group that already has a tank or a healer.
You’ve mentioned stacking a few times. Are you solely referring to the group game? Because in raids, Paladins are probably the most stackable friendly tank by a good margin, due to being able to fill the healing role on the side on demand.
Yep. I've been out too long to talk about the raid game, except in only the most general terms. I might actually get to raid with my warrior here soon, but I'll just be a scrub.
Ok. Just seems a little disingenuous to say Pal are the worst stacking tank, when in reality they’re literally the best stacking tank in a major area of the game (raiding). At the group level though you’re still probably #2 in utility, as self healing alone is better than what little warriors can do, eh? Ironically SKs are on the opposite end of things in the group/raid dynamic - we’re hot in grouping/utility but lukewarm in raids. Perhaps they need to rename the classes as Raidknight and Groupknight and abandon all attempts at balance between the two . It’d be nice if we’d get content where pacify, root, stuns and other cc were valuable utility again at the group level.
Can we please stop with the nonsense that paladins replace clerics on raids, do we splash or hit aurora, sure...but no one is like hey...sit that cleric, we’ve got pally power.
I don't doubt at all that having 90 % of your abilities insta cast + massive self healing advantage you would be overpowered. Knights have also abilities to outright deny damage. Shield Flash, Guardian /Unholy Guardian disc, 2 dmg capped 35 % and 20 % mitigation disc that stack nicely with Defensive Proficiency SPA, Spurn...
Can we please stop with the nonsense straw-manning? why on earth would you sit a cleric for a paladin if you needed more healing. Noone but you is suggesting that. Paladins are hybrid priests. They fill in when a pure priest isn't available, or provide additional healing coverage. Have you never saved tanks with your healing or something? Do you not try to anticipate spikes on tanks at certain times to drop in extra heals?
