You just proved a point made earlier. That a casual sometimes raider, sometimes player, really doesn't have to put in the same amount of time, effort, or have same amount of skill as the so called "elite" to reap the same rewards. Where is the incentive for people to strive to belong to those "elite" guilds if they can have their cake and eat it too in guilds like yours. Assuming they don't feel like pulling their hair out by the roots dealing with all the issues and drama. Without having even tried to do some of what has been suggested here and in other threads to resolve the issues your guild has ... don't you think you are beating a dead horse. Or can't you see that casual /non hard core raiders have never had it so good. Especially when you consider the fact that what raid non visibles you can't get through raids you can get through grouping or other means. Tier 1 RoS raid mechanics and requirements is a game changer in some ways .... yes. It isn't the first nor will it be the last I imagine. There have been many such over the years with unintended consequences. IE when in history of EQ did we go 3 years without a level increase? For the most part people assessed, adapted, and overcame. Many just endured. Some quit. You (and others) are threatening to do so without having tried. RoS is looking like almost all AA lines, spells and disciplines are going to have more ranks/increased power, as well as the innate power up from increased levels. EVERY time this happened in the past, it enabled the guild I was in to complete prior expansion raids and move on up into current expansion. Just in time for the summer doldrums to hit :/
Yeah that no level increase for 3 expacs.. man... that really .. uhhh.... what were you trying to compare that to again?
As far as I can tell, EQ has had 3 times where there was no level increase for 3 expansions. PoP-OoW (to be fair, the level increase there should have been in GoD), OoW-TSS, and TDS-RoS. I'm not really on board with locking T1 RoS behind EoK T3 flags, however I don't think locking T2 RoS behind T3 EoK would be a big deal. I think a good compromise would be to only have head and boots drop in T1 and unlock it to all (while keeping the Karzok aura in the Skyfire raid). If guilds that haven't beaten T3 EoK want to break their teeth against RoS T1, let them. EoK T2/T3 should be much easier with 110 and new/upgraded AAs and spells.
It is indeed scent of terris. hotkey 1 /assist mezz /alt activate 751 [1s cast time later] mob has 115 less magic resist Peasants get better? So simple but so out of reach.
The real question is why pull so many you have to mez? Better puller, better necro, maybe it is the same person. Drop the negative you "don't know how to play chanter" kill mobs get loots.
Doesn't really matter what we think what do the devs think? Or you all ramble on for another 50 pages? Lol
obviously. Right. there is, almost always has been. WithIN the "confines" of one expansion, not across many. That is the point for this entire thread. Nothing of the pulled-by-the-hairs-IFs you and others throw into the discussion after the quoted part matters. This is contradicting yourself within the span of just 3sentences, great! I agree with the "stalling" as you say. Yet, they are stalling the wrong audience, namely that which is behind anyways. My guess is that to make it "suck less" is the whole intent of this thread. Especially for people who have been stuck in even less of EoK than the rest of us, which must've made for much less variety and even more "suck" for them.
I highly resent the defamatory term "peasant guild". That aside, what you say is only true for the learning phase. Yes we all can still wipe and occasionally still do, one some events more than others. But all in all, we're getting though with only a handful of wipes per raid-week (as opposed to the raid DAY you mentioned). Correct in most cases i think, though it's not having the consequence you give following that quoted part. The only real consequence is that their raid week still takes up more days per week than ours. While we also defeat more events in that less time, making it that much easier for us to gear apps and ALTs than for them. Fully agree with this at least.
I don't think the bolded part is entirely true. A misconception i think. The way i get it, people do not want to be TOTALLY lockout out of a WHOLE new expansion's raids. That is completely different from the "they do not want to do EoK T3 at all anymore" that you claim in this post of yours. Yes, new levels and AAs will help with any DPS checks in EoK. Anyone disputing that, or claiming that there were no reason to buy RoS unless/until you have completed EoK is victim to a misconception/pointed emphasis too imo. And i HOPE that the overall power-increase will be significant enough to allow the suboptimal rosters to bully their way through EoK finally with level 110. But i think the "you have to wait until you did beat EoK T3 18 times" demoralizes people even more than their last year's wipes. After a year with basically just 3 or 4 EoK events instead of the 8 the rest of us have, i think people crave the opportunity to even just wipe in a new one.
I hope they do not, and i don't think it will even take that long. Of course, noone can know for sure at this time, not even people in the beta. But my hope is that with level 110 and even "just" the new Rk1 spells you and people in your situation will have a much easier time in EoK than today. Higher levels do far more in terms of rested spells than slightly better resist checks between Rk1 and Rk3 spells ever can. I also hope that RoS will have groupable nameds that do NOT require the full EoK gear (or even full RoS gear that people like to use in the beta) to beat for some gear to augment slots you could not replace with EoK raid drops yet. Once beat repeatedly, T3.1 is fairly easy - the real problem is in beating it the first few times because of the crit-blocking. I am SURE that level 110 will help with that. Daybreak are imo audacious by dividing EoK into two expansions, but they are not dumb. I think they withheld the level increase as the main selling point for exactly this reason. Because ESPECIALLY for all that haven't beaten EoK yet, level 110 is THE seeling point for the new expansion currently, nothing else.
You know, often they'll decrease the power of characters right before an expac, so that the total dps after obtaining most of the aa's etc.. is more similar than you would think to the dps you had before. It's an interesting concept eh? They're starting to do it a bit with the hybrid nerfs, and probably other nerfs that I didn't read about. So it could be that you end up at 110 with relatively equal dps as you had at 105 lol. But that's all up in the air. Depending on how they do it, you could realistically be further back than you initially were. It's up to you devs, don't let em down! Use your dev powers!
No one is saying you need to work as hard as an elite guild. You don't need to raid lockouts. You don't need to review your logs each night with your class lead. You don't need to grind out your tradeskills to get a few more % out of your artisan's aug. You don't need to get all of your heroic AAs. You don't need to max out your AAs. You don't need to talk on vent / mumble / discord / teamspeak. What they're saying you need to do is to walk the same path as everyone else. Why should you get a pass from half the expansion when the rest of us didn't? That's not rhetorical - I genuinely want to know. As for lessening the barriers, they are! You're now given more power to complete the raid, why shouldn't you be required to? Why wouldn't you want to? Why would you spend your entire time in the old expansion? If it's the EotD1 requirement, stay away from the KarZok. Overthere, Skyfire, Charasis, Sathir's Tomb are all viable zones for those without the EotD1 buff. You're restricted from Gorowyn and VP (since you would need to go to Gorowyn for a key piece). If it's the raid items (gear, rk3 spells), every single person is going to be at the same point. None of us will have any RoS raid gear when we first go into RoS. If it's not being able to do the RoS raids because you can't beat the EoK raids, you need help beating those raids. Power from the new AAs / levels is that help. Expecting your current raid force to all get to 110 to win these raids while shouldering your weight is selfish. So again, why would you spend your entire time in the old expansion? It's easy to say that nothing being discussed is relevant if you ignore the relevant posts people have made. I've shown you how it impacts the top tier guilds, and yet it goes without any reply. I guess my long winded posts are too much, so here's a TL;DR: If you lower the skill floor, you lower the skill ceiling. Please, read the long winded part though. I mean it as sincerely as possible and have zero intention of being belittling in it. Tiers can be thought of as steps to success, tools in a chest, bullet points on your resume, feather in your hat, etc. Each one has different elements in it that help you succeed in the later tiers (ideally). Skipping one means the next step is going to be that much higher, as you would typically have something else added to it that you need to surpass. Now you have two things to overcome instead of one. The raid steps have some spoilers. They're listed in order, so skip if you need. [RAID SPOILERS] Lceanium introduced auras. It's fairly simple to see and fairly simple to avoid. I don't think many people concern themselves with it, to be honest. It has spawns in swarms. It has DPS stops in it, lest you get overwhelmed with adds. You have some timed based mobs at the beginning, as well as % based adds during the main fight. Droga has more auras in it. It has group splitting. It has some triggers that you need (that corruption debuff thing that drops you to 15% max hp). It as positioning. It has a DPS stop in it for casters. It has % based adds. Prince introduces puzzles, which haven't been around since the Shard's Landing raid with the murderer, before that, raids in HoT. You have some periodic adds, a positioning thing, and DPS stops (Prince locks at certain %s). Now you have a DPS check as well. Queen has more auras, starting at 60%. It has periodic adds, as well as % based adds (in swarms). If your DPS isn't up to snuff, you get overwhelmed with adds. Trigger warnings from the auras help a lot here, and are only for two people. You have more HP locking, and it's unlocked based on killing other adds (sycophants). Vault has timed based spawns (in swarms). It has roaming auras you need to avoid. It has viral silences. It has burn portions. Now you have some mana checks to worry about as well (stay between 30% and 70% during the last 35% of the named or you get an add for every person outside of the window). You have some clicks to do ("puzzle") to get rid of a totem spawning timed-based adds. Karzok has more auras, this time spawning on top of players and you need to move. It has swarm mobs at the start. It has timed adds. It introduces breaking the shields to break an aura, and breaking some boxes to get the EotD2 achievement (blocker). You again have a DPS check. You now have two mobs to tank, luckily one of them just stands in place. You have an HP balance mechanic to work around with multiple options (consequences) for whichever way you unbalance it. Dragon has line of sight mechanics. Sometimes you need to be in view of that symbol thing, sometimes it's a detriment. This is a positioning thing. It brings back a roaming aura (similar to Vault), timed adds, and % based adds in swarms. It again has a DPS check. Atrebe introduces group splitting and group positioning. Swarmed mobs spawning at certain %s. It's frankly a disappointing final raid, nowhere near the difficulty of the previous four raids. [/RAID SPOILERS] Without going into too much detail with RoS, I can tell you that there are mechanics from the latter half of EoK that are absolutely within the first few raids of RoS. They've been beefed up (read: steroids). If you haven't climbed these steps already, you'll need to climb them in RoS in addition to others. Now, how does this impact high end guilds? I want to climb as high as possible with raids. I enjoy positioning. I enjoy auras. I enjoy triggers. I enjoy DPS checks. I enjoy adds. I enjoy puzzles. I want more. If there are only 10 steps to be made within a raid, and the first 4 are repeated over and over again, the leftover 6 can only go so high. I want you to succeed. Not only because you'll get joy out of it, but because that means we'll have more challenges. The devs will see "oh, these guys can handle auras, positioning, adds... what else can we throw at them?" Not "well, looks like we need to introduce the group positioning again since these guys skipped it." There's only so much that can be done in a raid, and if you have to repeat old mechanics for the first few, it means there are less new mechanics overall. It's not just about gear or spells. I maxed my gear / spells / xp long ago and still enjoy raiding. As a monk, I'm much less gear dependent than other classes and don't necessarily need the latest & greatest right out of the gate (don't get me wrong, I'll still take it). I enjoy the fight. I enjoy beating my last parse. I enjoy beating my last time. Top tiered guilds lose players just like anyone else. The game gets stale, they move to another raid force, they don't have time for raiding anymore, etc. These players get replaced with other players - often from lower tiered guilds. If these people can't perform the basic steps that the rest of us have done, my guild's performance suffers. No longer can we handle X, Y, and Z, and now we can't handle the new challenges in the new raids. Ask me anything you want about the raids and I'll give you whatever information you'd like about them. Full strats, triggers, group makeup - whatever you need. If I can provide it, I will. Send me a tell in game (Povar.Thrillhouse), an email in game, or a PM on these forums. Anything you'd like to know about monks as well.
.. how many more players / accounts will be cancelled with ROS expansion ?I know several so far who will not order ROS. how many more cancelling accounts DBG can handle before having to end EQ ? in 2017 it's just not healthy for the game. we need T1 to be focused on weaker guilds so we can try to raid in new expansion that we pay for . and getting harder while we progress.so everyone would be happy . I would prefer to have more new players than having a lot just cancelling their accounts . some will for sure if they still going that way with all the blocks in ROS for weaker guilds . elite guilds will still find a way to beat the expansion fast anyway and will have zero impact on them.....
This is the crux of it that some aren't seeing. It doesn't matter if you feel that others should "eat their vegetables". It is about the business side of things and the fact that DBG needs to keep lower level guilds interested as well. Tier 1 should be able to be done by lower tier guilds that haven't beaten the previous expansion. Higher tiers should be the ones for those that wish to have the feather in their cap and get the "high" of pushing themselves. Lost subs does not help anyone in the long run.
