RoS T1 raids [Seal of Charassis]

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Blitter, Oct 31, 2017.

  1. Blitter Elder

    I'm hoping that the Seal of Charassis requirement can be dropped for the T1 RoS raids to give guilds (who have not completed EoK) something to at least aim for.

    If these raids are harder than Kar'zok then that will be proven when they cannot do them.

    One of the guilds I raid with main problem is that they are heavily reliant on boxes. So it makes an event like Vault, very random in it's luckiness for defeat. Add in a heavy tanking requirement + auras which is Kar'Zok and it really wont matter if they are lvl 110 or lvl 120, boxes cannot move that fast to avoid the auras, and considering most of the tanks are boxing their own healers, then it makes kiting the assaulters difficult if not impossible.

    I don't think allowing non completion raiders to attempt 3 / 9 of the raids in the new expansion to be too much to ask.
  2. Khat_Nip Augur

    Everyone that brings up this same argument doesn't appreciate that RoS is intended to be an extension of EoK, as it were.
    The Seal of Charassis achievement makes perfect sense in that regard.
    You state you "want something to at least aim for" then aim for gaining new levels, AAs, and gear that'll give you a significant edge in defeating the EoK encounters that were troubling you previously until such time you meet the requirements of RoS so you can have a go at those.
  3. Maedhros Augur

    Your argument makes some valid points, but the guilds that have not completed EOK still have something to aim for.... completing EOK!
    Axxius, Issk and feeltheburn like this.
  4. Blitter Elder

    How does that help counter the aura's from Kar'Zok with people 2-3 boxing?

    If the flame Aura's in Kar'zok weren't there then we could beat the event pretty easily. Vault we can beat but we have to rely on getting lucky with the Guardian Aura.
    But boxes having to move every 30secs for the flame aura, it doesn't matter what level, AA,gear we are. Currently we try and scatter the boxes out around the perimeter and hope we get lucky with the flame aura's.

    Atm - I can't see any incentive to buying RoS. I have raid gear up to Vault and I have EoK rares filling out the remainder spots.
    And looking at the progression chart, 15+ other guilds are in a similar situation.

    Anyways I do hope they reconsider it. I'm happy for them to keep in the Seal requirement for T2+.
  5. Act of Valor Augur

    You do have something to aim for. You'll have five extra levels and hundreds of more AAs at your disposal against the EoK raids you can't defeat currently.
  6. Kiras Augur

    I can't think of a single time in EQ where access to raids in an expansion required completion of the previous expansion. OoW was arguably a continuation of GoD in the sense that RoS is a continuation of EoK, but it didn't do that.

    Optimistically, let's say that guilds currently stuck on T3 can suddenly beat all of it the week after ROS comes out. That's still 6 weeks until they can even start raiding the new content. It would be okay if there was a low reward entry raid to at least start chipping away at Rk3s etc, like ROF's NTOV remake. No access at all to new raids for at least 6 weeks though? That's ridiculous.

    I'm thinking of unsubscribing my box. He's never going to be flagged anyways since they decided to get ridiculously cheap with the backflags in EoK (1/6th of a backflag per kill, as opposed to TBM giving 1 full backflag per kill) - they're almost certainly going to be the same with RoS.
  7. Kiras Augur

  8. Khat_Nip Augur

    An out of thin air arbitrary analogue:
    "I'm having trouble completing the last half of my Shawl 2.0 but you should let me skip those parts and continue at the start of the Shawl 3.0". Progression exists for a reason.
    Legit boxing in raids isn't necessarily easy, especially when it comes down to dealing with emotes but you have to face the reality that if something doesn't improve on your end then it remains a stalemate for you.
    (By improve I mean some combination of getting better at boxing or better yet replace boxes with real people, realize better strats, get higher levels, gear, & AAs/abilities which will raise your stats.)

    You have to understand that "T1 RoS" raids are EoK T4 and they only go up from there. Being able to skip T3 would be nonsensical.
  9. Khat_Nip Augur

    And? Every guild that beat T3 went through the same requirements. Besides, EoK is still current and even if it wasn't all of the events people haven't yet even seen is "new content". So what if it's not Brand New?

    If people that have been trying haven't yet gone through the EoK T3 raids then they would be doing themselves a favor in doing so and also taking advantage of the perks of RoS (levels, AAs, abilities, potential upgrades) to help them along the way.

    If they did change the reqs back from Seal of Charasis to Seal of the Kar`Zok and you jump in thinking you're gonna go from EoK T2 to RoS T1 then you're gonna have a really bad time and ultimately end up defaulting back to vying for EoK T3 wins anyway.
  10. Cleaver Augur

    I want to sound like i understand and feel for you, but raids are not meant to 2-3 box. You can't honestly expect them to design raids to make them so easy 35-40 people with 15 more being boxed can beat it.

    You would be better off asking them to lower the raid size to 36-42 toons instead of 54 because that is a better number for todays everquest.
  11. Bigstomp Augur

    Context: I have completed EoK, have full EoK raid gear, this won't affect me much at all.

    I believe the expansion should be self contained and other than difficulty/goodies from old expansions (twincast clicky, other prior rewards that slightly increase power) the entry raids should be tryable unflagged.

    If you can't beat them, fine. But I don't like the past expansion providing a flag to even get into this expansion.
    Nicemen, Tallie, Fnyanea and 2 others like this.
  12. Bigstomp Augur

    They should be allowed to try (and probably fail) but they should be allowed to try.

    All the rough stuff like the Kar'zok ae that requires completing eok stuff. I'm fine with that.
    Let em fail miserably trying without completing prior stuff, that works. But I don't agree with not letting em try.
  13. Khat_Nip Augur

    When EoK launched so did the ability to view its achievements.
    12 wins in T1 (Di`Zok Royal Seal) flagged you for T2.
    18 wins in T2 (Seal of the Kar`Zok) flagged you for T3.
    18 wins in T3 (Seal of Charasis) flagged you for ?
    It was unknown the use but strongly implied that those Seal of Charasis would lead into a continuation of EoK into what we now know is RoS. Not a self-contained expansion but a second half, as if both were each 50% of a greater expansion theme.
    They obviously didn't just come up with the whole idea on a whim a week ago.

    Edit to Add: Removing requirements altogether or even dropping the requirements to just satisfy the Seal of the Kar`Zok would make no sense whatsoever. At all.
  14. Yinla Augur

    As long as beating the first ROS raid gives a FULL seal of Charsis flag I can live with it.

    I don't like the idea of needing previous expansion visibles to create ROS armor. We had a choice of previous visibles or a template (purchased or player made) in previous expansions it should be the same for this. Both raid and group as some have said Sebilis visibles were better so many went for that instead of EOK.
  15. Bobsmith Augur

    Some will like it, some will not. Such is life.
  16. Smokezz Augur

    The key to boxing on raids, is knowing when to do it. My old guild on Tunare, we had numbers problems. I got good at playing Rogue/Cleric on raids. However, some raids were pretty difficult to be *GOOD* on both characters on the raid due to raid mechanics. And if you can't be *GOOD* on both characters, you should just play one.

    As for EoK, most of the raids you could get away with playing two characters if you're good at it - this is all dependent on the classes you're playing obviously. The only raids that would be troublesome are Vault and Kar`Zok due to the auras.

    That all said... as Cleaver mentioned, the raids aren't designed for you having people 2-3 boxing. If you have a couple people doing it, you can get by. If you have 10 people doing it you're not going to succeed on the harder raids and honestly the devs shouldn't have to cater to the few guilds that have to do that. You should look on your server and hook up with another guild for some help. Now that RoS is on the horizon, the guilds that have defeated EoK already likely aren't going to be doing those raids very much. Reach out and see if some of their raiders want to come to your raids. Some people simply like to raid, and they might come help you defeat the events.

    As for EoK being required for RoS... it's certainly the first time they've tied two expansions together like this. I'm not sure what to think of that. But the flags were indeed in there right from the start.
  17. Fnyanea Augur

    "Not a self-contained expansion but a second half, as if both were each 50% of a greater expansion theme."
    This needs to be clearly included in their adverts. Every single expansion has been stand alone till now. Expect a lot of unhappy people on launch day.

    "They obviously didn't just come up with the whole idea on a whim a week ago."
    That doesn't mean its a good idea.

    "Edit to Add: Removing requirements altogether or even dropping the requirements to just satisfy the Seal of the Kar`Zok would make no sense whatsoever. At all."
    It makes just as much sense as not having the requirements!
  18. Zhaunil_AB Augur

    The obvious selling point for RoS is the level increase - plain as that.
    Even if you 're geared to Vault, you should be missing some items from T3 (even on the raid-vendor) that would help you much.
    Even not knowing which "special" spells they will introduce, even the standard upgrades should make Reaper that much easier for you, between raised AC softcap (from level) and new spells for more DPS and more healing.
    All of these 3 should help you get through Reaper with the crit-blocker still active that much easier.
    And never forget: each time you're winning this, it becomes progressively easier - since this event's design is that backwards.

    As others have said, RoS is EoK1.5.
    Along with the level increase the whole thing should by rights have been released as one expansion.
    They didn't - perhaps for similar reasons as back in the GoD days (which was also admittedly tuned for level70 but without the level increase), or perhaps because they saw the "market value".
    Why sell something for price x when you can sell it's component parts for twice as much?
    "Oh wait, i got an idea: Let's make some raids extremely hard while withholding the level-increase and power-up that comes with it. When people have banged their heads often enough into the wall we created, they'll gladly buy the rest of the zones which we should have had done but could not to end their frustration. we win twice with one stroke!"

    So, with RoS being EoK 1.5, the Seal of Charasis makes sense.
    To lock some RoS raids behind it.
    It's not necessary though, nor does it make real "sense" to lock ALL raids behind it.

    I can only read up on the beta, but i would say that this would kind of make sense to me, even with regards to the story-line.

    Lceanium is requestable with just the progression of that zone done.
    Droga already requires a bit more progression.
    I understand that there are 3 zones with 3 raids that will only require their respective zone-progression (plus currently the Seal of the Kar'Zok, to be changed to the Seal of Charasis) to request.
    It would make sense to me to NOT require Seal of Charasis for those.
    Or do people need "Champion of The Empires of Kunark" (i.e. completed EoK group progression) to enter any new zone at all?
    Don't think so...
  19. Zhaunil_AB Augur

    If this is about the RoS T1 gear requiring EoK T2 gear to make, then i beg to differ:
    Those that chose to go the HH Sebsilis way with their characters will much resent it, while the rest is indifferent.
    Of course, one can say in typical polit-speech "what isn't against me is for me" but that's not the case i think.

    If however this is about the key-ing requirements well...
    Then only those will like it that have something to gain from it - i.e. less "competition".
    Which would at most be the currently 22 listed guilds that have completed EoK T3.
    (which also seem to be all the guilds that currently ARE in T3 at all.)

    But even if you're one of those guilds, then you only will "like it", if you're so unsure of yourself as to fear the competition of the 2nd or 3rd guild of your server.
    Or if you value the "distance" that Dev's put between "you and the rest" for bragging rights.
    All in all:
    In my estimation - those that will "like it" have to be some sad people.
  20. Jumbur Augur

    If RoS tier 1 is considered to be a sort of "EoK tier 4", then they could "smooth" the transition a little by having some of the 106-110 rk3 spells drop from EoK tier 3 targets.
    This will give us casuals something new to spend our dkp on, and give us a little headstart when we finally enter RoS-raids. It will also help motivation a little bit, if we are forced to gear-up recruits in EoK-visibles.
    Yinla likes this.

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