do YOU want to, Maedhros? because there's a way to play with the warrior toys instead of the paladin set. You just have to give up root, heals, stuns, cures, etc., and in general commit to always dying against any- & every-thing unless someone that's not you is watching your hp bar. Or you could be an SK, if you like their tools? Fwiw, though, I'm not looking to add more SKs to my raid roster. I'd like at least one more good paladin [who likes what they do]. There are purposes to which the warrior or SK toolsets are more apt than the paladin one. There's no argument about that. There are, likewise, roles that those cannot fill, due to their tools being much narrower. My feeling is that if the role you want to fill isn't a paladin one ... you should play what you like! Class isn't some jealously guarded status. But classes do exist, even within an archetype, and having different tools defines those classes.
This is a pretty incredible amount of deflection. Dont flip this around, just answer me. Would you trade the warrior harmonious for the paladin one?
If I say no, is that even a gotcha? That's not how this works. Like, we don't log in, declare an immutable identity, then pick and choose which laser eye beams we get. Last Stand, Valiant, Repel, Armor of the Inquisitor, some SK Dichos & Dires, T'yvl's & Lich Stings + VoD? Let's get it ALL up in here - - The answer is obviously no. If I wanted to do that, if I wanted to trade warrior things for paladin things, I'd have done it. I would play a paladin, and would have been playing a paladin for the last 18 years, if that were the toolset I wanted to run with. I sure… notice … sometimes that I don't have the independence or near the breadth of options that knights enjoy, but them's the breaks. The choice is, continuously, there. For both of us.
I don't want to trade, I don't want my harmonious to be AE. What I want is the ridiculous stun removed The single target hate brought up into the ballpark of what the others do, even if that's least of the 3. I want valiant fixed And I want hate over time components on our AE abilities to either stack or be shorter duration but higher hate/tick, because currently they don't stack and we have to sacrifice part of their total hate generation for higher burst hate. I don't consider any of that picking which laser beams I want. Maybe you do. We can agree to disagree.
Well, Many SK's want the AE protion of the sk one removed as well. It makes it unusable or annoying in many situations, so I like your single target one better. I love the fact that war get to pick which one they are using. So in all actuallity, yours is not as much hate, but can be used anywhere. Ours is more hate but can only be used in certain situations (mainly group game), and war get to pick. Seems pretty much balanced to me. In the hate part, sk one is 14k AE and pal is 10ish k agro (single target), so yeah i can see some room for the pal one to be increased. war one is 20k+ for single but way less for ae one, like 7k(?). to lazy to care to look it up.
SK one is 35k, hate mod + base damage, the 14k hate is AE the rest is current targrt. If we both target the same mob it takes 4 paladin procs to overcome a single SK proc. Now that is to illustrate disparity not saying tanks should target the same mob.
Yeah its early, I did forget about the lifetap on main target part. so as i said, the pal one could use some love in the hate generation department. If they fixed heal agro though, that group heal recourse on yours would go a long way.
I mean just for pallies, put a hate override on the heal portion or something like what you want fixed on valiant.
It doesn't matter that all 3 classes are different, they need to be able to perform their main role. Right now the lack of aggro of one class lowers its ability to fulfill its job. If you give an aggro generation tool to 2/3 of the tank classes that surpass everything available you can't then go and pretend everything is fine if the 3rd class got something totally different (and useless in this case, or our dichotomic would be great then) just for the sake of diversity. So you lost your argument about this specific line of the spell and now you bring all the abilities from all the tank classes like it matters? lol.
I remember when SK were in the spot of being the 3rd tank on agro by a good margin. We had people fighting us as well. I hope pallies get some increased agro, They are the farthest down by a good measure currently, and sometimes I even have a hard time keeping agro if DPS go all out right off. Hello new dots, new agro dicho change etc.
If I fullburn on my beastlord, there's no way after unbroken. That's with dropping Divine call, Dicho, Beacon, projection, clicking numerous clickies, and spamming crush crush valiant Ardent brilliant and FOD on recast. With new dots coupled with the proc every swing AA and the HHE from frenzy of spirit coupled with aleles vindication it's ridiculous amounts of hate. Afew other classes give me trouble too, some not so much. Part of this has to do with how those classes are designed, part our aggro is for shite ATM. Which fine whatever I just hit protective spirit and tank with the Beast then, thatsthat's fine if I am boxing alone, but abit silly when grouped with go hard rangers or enchanters. Let alone the F'd up alliances and monk abilities that I don't have to deal with, but are a factor on raids.
I understand, I play with a sick ranger that puts me to the test and I know I put out way more agro than pallies. Beasts I dont care about because they can fd and get back up with losing maybe 1 sec dps at best. Rangers and enchanters have ways to lower their agro, they just don't like to Heck even on my zerker I have to use his hate lowering stuff just to keep off agro sometimes, but I blame that on crap tanks While I still stand by the fact that pallies need more agro, they are keeping their promise of making agro everyone's problem, all tanks have to actually work for agro.
That isn't at all how beastlord FD actually functions in game... You have a CHANCE to reduce aggro to 0 yes, but DOTS screw with that tremendously in my experience. As far as chanters/rangers they have long cooldowns on deaggro abilities so they can't be used nearly often enough. Luckily all 3 of those classes can take a hit rather well... but still
BL 75% chance, and it does drop them a ton when they do it...usually, I play with a high output bl and he has no issues dropping agro when he needs to. The ranger/enchanter do need to know when to use their deagro abilities, but it usually isnt an issue because as you say they can take a hit.
Only pallys really need to worry. SKs and Warriors can hold agro WAY better than any paladin can. All tanks should be equal on this front. Either they all need to work for agro (preferred method) or they all have easy agro (which only paladins lack).
