Lockjaw rotation shattered by Faceless - Full FFA time begins?

I predict at least 5 of the 10 raiding guilds previously on the rotation will die before velious if the server remains ffa.

To all the guild leaders out there that think threatening MM will get you somewhere, I strongly recommended you consider your player base... Do you really think they will stick around when they are not getting any kills...

We all know that dima has a proven track record regarding member attrition. Citi was never even remotely in danger of collapsing throughout a much more toxic raid environment.

This type of server rule set will only benefit 2 guilds. And I honestly don't even think it will benefit one of those all to much.

All we can hope for now, is so much drama that DBG has no choice but to instance...

As I understand it... the whole condition under which the old rotation was being set was that DBG was going to enforce whatever rotations were agreed upon.... so when the majority of the guilds decided what the rotation was, Faceless, while they did not agree to those terms, still followed them.

When that DBG enforcement ended. Rather than say 'F U' to the entire server and abolish all rotation like Apok did on Ragefire (which is what caused DBG to back out...) Faceless simply wanted to remove 1 mob (Chain of 3 mobs) from the rotation and make it FFA.. ALL other rotation was still going to be in effect.

When MM was faced with a rotation with terms they did not agree with... They opted for the Later and chose to dump the rotation entirely... Like a two year old throwing a Tantrum because he was given a Cherry Tootsie Pop instead of Grape!

You must be new. Read around, Dima(previously citizen) is just as bad as everyone else. There are no "innocents" in this. Welcome to EQ raiding.

Dima talks about "trains, ksing raid rotations etc" yet his guild has done the exact same thing. "Bad faith" in the past, is every competitive raiding guild including MM(not including his history on fippy when he lead Citizen, hi2u script kiddies needing to cheat to be competitive). Yet he tries to put on a public face that his guild is completely benign and innocent and is here to fight for the good of everyone. Which is a lie and why I criticize him.

Dima is nothing more then a politician, with the same moral code(aka none) as one. Though this seems to be a pretty common thing for every GL/Officer of bleeding edge competitive guilds(especially in old school EQ).

But hey you can continue to defend someone with no knowledge and swallow his propaganda on forums, no skin off my back.

Edit: On side note, its fun to watch the MM PR machine and legion of forum warriors(like rekias) go all out. Especially rekias, keep "liking" those post rekias, I'm sure that will help.

Man I would love instances right about now. Even being in FFA with TL was better than how sad Faceless' leadership keeps making themselves look. Guess we'll see how this turns out.

[Sat Sep 26 21:38:33 2015] You told dupre, 'Heya'
[Sat Sep 26 21:38:44 2015] Dupre tells you, 'Sup'
[Sat Sep 26 21:38:56 2015] You told Dupre, 'What happened to the Community days for sky?'
[Sat Sep 26 21:39:16 2015] Dupre tells you, 'Group discussion in leaders channel the other night. It was eliminated since the community isn't abiding by the rules fo the rotation. '
[Sat Sep 26 21:39:36 2015] Dupre tells you, 'DBG isn't enforcing it, the community isn't bound by the rules so they dn't get a protected day. '
[Sat Sep 26 21:39:56 2015] You told Dupre, 'Also, apparently there was some secret meeting that we weren't invited to, do you know anything about this?'
[Sat Sep 26 21:40:24 2015] Dupre tells you, 'It was more of a discussion, not an official meeting where votes took place. It was basically everyone saying they planned to stick to the rotation. '
[Sat Sep 26 21:41:17 2015] You told Dupre, 'ok, good. I'm glad to hear there wasn't any underhanded changes made to the rotation'
[Sat Sep 26 21:42:21 2015] Dupre tells you, 'I don't know if you knew this but pasted logs can be edited'
[Sat Sep 26 21:43:17 2015] You told Dupre, 'Nah dude, I knew that. Its just text.'

To summarize:
1. A discussion was held that reversed the community day that was agreed upon.
2. At least one (and I think there were more) rotation members were excluded from this decision.
3. Included in that discussion was a decision, made "informally", to remove Freeti from rotation to FFA.
4. An interested party to both topics inquired about the discussion they were not present for AND YOU COULD ONLY THINK ABOUT COMMUNITY DAYS?

You can make this stuff up if you tried. I mean, seriously? You had no concept, none at all, that this interested party inquiring about the discussion would be very interested to know that a mob they were on rotation for was now considered FFA when it was their turn for it?

I mean I get FI - big dog on the block is going to bark and growl and then act when it wants to. But, being asked point blank about something and feigning ignorance? You've lost all credibility if that log has not been perverted.

You really live in some kind of bizarre world where reality just isn't your thing.

They got close on Fippy a few times. Had to resort to scripting SKs HTs to even have a chance against TL(they were losing almost every mob and players because of it).

Didn't really start too flourish until later expansions with instances and a more spread out population and didn't become the top until TL quit due to just being bored.

So let me ask you this...if FI, AD and MiM came here and publicly state they vote (no other guilds because we are not a part of that piece of the rotation ) to make Efreeti FFA would you stand by that majority vote?

P.S. Removing access to the rotation does not sound like you support a rotation that is stable and best for all.

Exactly. Which is why its hilarious to watch all these "leaders"(especially dima) pretend otherwise.

Also its good to see MM admitting splinter guilds(if you are still in MM, I honestly don't know) to rig rotations.

On a side note :
I'm shocked people are shocked by this stuff. Its old school EQ competitive raiding, its always and will always be like this. Don't let anyone try to make you believe they are goody little two-shoes who will fight for your cause. Sorry no, they will do everything in their power and ability to get the best for THEM. Which again is pretty much EQ raiding(prior to instances) in a nutshell.

Out of curiosity, if your claim is true and you knew what they were going to do ahead of time, why are people pulling out the victim card for the decision you knew was coming? Playing victim doesn't win you any points in that regard. Especially if you knew what was coming and did nothing to avert it. Or, at worst, you were prepared to act the moment decision was made.

I'm not overly excited about how this has all played out, and I really don't care which outcome we get as a result. I enjoy both rotations and FFA.

All I know is that it appears that one side protests vehemently and the accused has failed to (or chooses not to) acknowledge the accusations, let alone address them in a response.

The silence from the accused reveals that there is much more to this than a simple "FI wanted Freet FFA, people went along with it, and we were excluded."

They made a like button so I'll click what I like. Either way, so far we have logs of Faceless admitting to breaking the rotational rules, Dupre lieing, Faceless openly mocking other guilds and claiming ownership of the rotation, and a severe lack of logs of members of the "no vote" meeting letting MM know of the new non-voting nature of the rotation and changes. On the other hand, no one else has brought up anything concrete in the opposite direction other than hearsay as to MM breaking rotation in anyway before Faceless broke it, knowing exactly what would happen had they done so (everyone did so again apathy you guys, it's bad stuff). The opposition has no moral leg to stand on. I for one feel like amends should be made by Faceless. After all,

[Sun Sep 27 21:26:21 2015] Darth tells Leaders:5, 'There are no more agreed upon anything.'
[Sun Sep 27 21:26:26 2015] Darth tells Leaders:5, 'What do you NOT understand.'
[Sun Sep 27 21:26:31 2015] Darth tells Leaders:5, 'It was never an agreement.'
[Sun Sep 27 21:26:36 2015] Darth tells Leaders:5, 'It was an enforced vote.'
[Sun Sep 27 21:26:41 2015] Darth tells Leaders:5, 'it's no longer enforced.'
[Sun Sep 27 21:26:46 2015] Darth tells Leaders:5, 'It's no longer a vote.'

When it comes right down to it all of this leads right back to them and their leadership. Every road you take every move you make it all leads back to Faceless.

And in fact I apologize to you Dupre for the Puppet Strings comment, I still stand by my other words. Apathy is the killer of rotations.

Good night guys,

Jaluden Jalootin
The Funky Modest shaMan

No I just read that log. It's really simple. There are words on the page and those words amount to "wow those guys are really pathetic". The worst part is I'm a forum warrior up at 4:12 am saying that. Talk about sinkin low.

Seriously? Letting a guild change a stable rotation that is best for all without a vote and leaving out members doesn't sound like you support a stable rotation that is best for all. In fact, if it was best for all MM would have been alerted immediately to the changes. At the moment, the only guild that is suggesting a fair rotation that is best for all is MM with that proposal.
edit: Don't forget that Dima heard about a meeting where members were left out. Tried to call an emergency meeting and then was blocked by the exact guild that held the original meeting in the first place and was lied to when he asked about it. It has been made fully impossible to say that MM was treated fairly in the slightest the last week or so. So tell me all about how you and everyone else supports a fair rotation that is best for everyone in the morning.

Let's be very clear here. We beat TL in Omens and every expansion after that until they folded in PoR. Citizen, from my recollection, beat everything available in era throughout all the expansions we've worked on.

While we didn't see eye to eye on the approach of the game and raiding etiquette, especially early in the server, I appreciated the competition. We had many members of TL join us, and to this day retain members that I'm happy to play with.

When we did have an opportunity to choke or throttle TL (Master Vule) in DoDH, I specifically chose not to, as in my opinion, it is never right to throttle or choke capable guilds. We offered a fair 1-1 rotation, without FFA, to any guild that had completed all the Blood Raids.

Some may disagree, I would offer the same terms to any capable guild for all content. In open world, I do believe there should be opportunity to go above and beyond, and FFA is fine for that. The argument here is the frequency of FFA, along with throttling/choking capable guilds, which the latter I am against.

In this scenario, I strongly stand by the fact that Faceless is throttling and choking the content as much as they can. Instead of literally encouraging a healthier raiding atmosphere, they are picking and choosing the rotation terms that are favorable to them. Instead of encouraging comradery, they have personally moved against a rivalry against our guild and other guilds.

The attacks will always continue, from anonymous accounts, from other community leaders, from people I once called friends, and the words may hurt, but it won't stop me.

It is a long crusade, and at times a strenuous journey as a leader of a community that wants nothing more than to enable guilds of all calibers to enjoy all the content they're capable of doing, it's a big battle.

As a leader, I get a great deal of courage from my members, and even other community members that communicate with me on a daily basis. Positive or negative, it's all motivating, and a thank you goes out to all my fans out there.

Integrity, and a sense of fairness, and a committed team is all you need to be successful. While it's only a game that we sit back and play, everyone deserves a fair shot.

I don't see anywhere that MM is suggesting a fair rotation in fact I see MM breaking the rotation and then locking the rotation sheet. I totally regret sticking up for you guys in the meeting you are referring to since until yesterday I had no reason to dislike you guys.

Dima, sorry but none of your actions over the past 24 hours have anything to help foster a healthy server community; quite the opposite in fact.

In MMs eyes the rotation was broken first with FFA efreeti. So they didn't break the rotation they were doing what a guild would do with NO rotation.

As for Dima's actions over the past 24hrs everyone gets emotional from time to time - everyone thinks with emotions instead of logic. If he is being truthful wanting a better atmosphere for all then it's obvious he would be emotional when he is constantly wiping the spit from his face.

From their perspective the rotation was broken first by Faceless, so their kill on Inny today was actually not breaking the rotation.

Locking the rotation sheet was more or less an emotional decision therefore can be forgiven as we all act oddly when emotional.

That's how I feel at least.

Back in my day we were told we needed more PewPew and less QQ (like this amazing specimen):

You really are a lapdog. Man dima has done good work on you.



Ladies and gents. This is why rotations for EQ raiding is dumb. Its just not built to handle it, especially in such shortened time-frames per expansion.

Everyone wants content, but EQ wasn't built to handle so many guilds at the top. And instead of trying to compete guilds try to force rotations in to get their share. EQ was built for trickle down but in today's age of "Everyone gets a participation trophy" that is unfeasible.

DBG should of never tried to enforce rotations. And LJ should quit trying and just play EQ as it was meant to be. Once a expansions are out, guilds spread out and everyone gets content as it trickles down from the top guilds(as it can support two equal ones somewhat).

FI wants as much FFA as they want, and that's their right to have that opinion. I, for one, don't believe that is completely healthy to be 100% FFA in a community with several capable guilds. Let me remind you that the Efreeti was rotated before, and during the enforced rotations.

I know for a fact that AD, and MiM preferred to keep the status quo with the Efreeti cycle. The chat logs specifically prove that FI pushed the change down their throats in a "You don't have a vote, it's our way or the highway" session.

To specifically answer your question, based on the actions of FI, I will not stand by a vote where they choke or throttle any capable guilds out of any cycles. I will not adhere to a cycle where guilds are specifically being throttled on content. With regards to FFA, I am in support of FFA, within reason and without a monopoly towards one guild such as the recent Efreeti change that was arbitrarily changed by Faceless without due process and a large amount of bad faith.