TDS Off Raid 1 Tita's Ghost

If it's progression then just do that event each week and tell me how long to get keys to access final event.

*Popcorn*

No details, please! Your strats seem to have done a fantastic at job getting you a nowhere-near-first-place win pretty reliably, so, GG I guess? You keep yours and we'll keep ours. After all, we rather enjoy finishing War and all of TDS in under three hours.

Come to think of it, the last time it took us ~20 minutes to do anything we were explaining to Saavior how to get into the Void on Beta to test the raid, but by that time we had already completed it three times over and it didn't matter anyway. (Spoiler: he never made it)

At any rate, I can understand how desirable it may be to reach that far to slap a "1" next to your name after not having one there in... well... forever, so I suppose we'll let you take the gold star for coloring inside the lines or whatever happened on 12/09/14. Grats?

Been there, done that, though.

So, everything but Tita's Ghost in under 1 hr? Impressive!

Now I'm 100% you work for a tabloid.

12/12 keys to access the final event argues strongly that they were obtained legitimately. I'd imagine if SOE suspected major shenanagins by an early finisher with the bug revealed a month ago they'd come down like thunder. One minute it's "I knolw how progression works" and the next its 12/12??!! something must be amiss!!! Logs please - maybe I'll find something - kiting, pet tanking, unintended use of DA to bypass evrnt challenges..

Ironic one would DA this event and insist their guild would only do events the way the developers intended. Yep makes me want to give them my logs so they (those DAers) can make sure I'm on the up and up.

I'll stick with SOE making the rules, investigating probable breeches of the rules as they judge appropriate, and enforcing the rules as they chose to enforce them. Tyvm.

This event may not appear in the beat the raid progression achievement, but it certainly has a lot of impact on progressing. IMO you may be correct - SOE [not EGL or Triton] makes the rules. Now apply that "truth" elsewhere sir.

Perfect example of why players can't "police" achievement. Focused on a strict interpretation of the rules when criticisng others, loosey goosey with them when examining themselves.

Sony hasn't said that the DA tanking is wrong. I'm glad our guild did it without it, cause 2+ hours of that would drive me insane. But until SOE says it's wrong (like they did when they messed up and made DA last forever during xorbb time period) I can't really say it's wrong. Guilds are using what they were given as abilities to get it done even if I personally would not want to use those tactics.

Which is true of kiting, pet tanking, and a host of other things.

Kiting is legal? I remember an event when players were sad others were suceeding by kiting the developer added anti-kiting to the event. Ditto pet tanking. Yet on another event pet tanking was mandated - I don't believe it could be done without pet tanking.

DA? Had an invisible SOE employee tell a previous guild that evading Vishimtar's mechanics using DA was not intended. Iirc a month later when the event was actually debugged it was also impossible.

There's the way SOE intended
Other alternatives they tolerate
Other alternatives they make impossible later
and exploits which SOE says are exploits and may take punitive action for using.

Only one of these is cheating (keeping in mind that SOE can determine after the fact that an alternative was in fact exploiting).

It seems like the ... Realm has gone ... Insane after they found out we beat it legit!

Universe. #1 guild in the universe.

RoI established what they can do by beating every event in the expansion 1st. If they pet tank every encounter that would indicate more guilds should pet tank because whatever RoI is doing clearly works.

If 10-15 days to beat Arx3 and Arx4 after keying is (largely) a non-issue is good enough then you don't have to worry about what RoI is doing as 4 guilds that based on all available information aren't anything like RoI managed that feat. 2 of those 4 guilds beat Ghost in 21min or less, it's a pretty high standard and guilds can certainly attempt to emulate those guilds.

P&G based on pre-nerf ToRot and PoWar last expansion and MS based on a lot of wins especially starting from 2nd on Sep5 don't really give any indication to "mid-tier" guilds that there is an option to beat Ghost. There was some discussion on these boards about P&G's win, which I would consider the first widely available information about that option.

RA _______ of being the first guild to report a Ghost win that people are reasonably likely to assume wasn't a "legit" win followed that up with their first ever Top 10 win on a progression raid. No clue if because, in spite, regardless or something else should go in the blank.

Phoenix and FE to me are the "mid-tier" guilds that benefited from knowing there was an option to beat the raid and based on discussion or vote by the guild or a decision by the leader(ship) decided it was worth the time and deaths to get a chest full of loot from Ghost. After doing it once they may decide it's worth doing again, they may decide to spend that time on other targets.

This to me is the primary purpose of tracking wins, so every guild has this information as long as one person in the guild who is part of the decision process for picking targets for their guild visits a website from time to time or gets this information from discussion in a serverwide channel or however.

The secondary purpose of course is bragging rights and in deference to this I'll list times reported to me to beat Ghost to for the purpose of the comparison of genitalia. Provide some Vitio times and you'll have another way to see how you stack up.

All the wins are legit based on all information from SOE to date. It's still a repeatable method to beat the raid after 2 full patches, no loot has been taken away and no one has been suspended. Beyond that it's simply trusting whatever I'm told, my initial reply is because at the time I didn't realize Arx3 could be done before Arx2:

PM to me: 12/4 - Arx 3
My reply: So bugged win on Arx2 you aren't counting?
Their reply: No. It's bugged out in multiple ways. I'm just a member and haven't specifically asked, but until we get a legit win on Arx 2, there won't be an update for it afaik.
My reply: Grats on Arx3, updated~!

I haven't and won't do anything to verify that or any win that seems at all reasonable. If someone told me Triality just beat Arx1 I'd probably want an /ach link but if a guild has a couple of dozen Level 105s on Magelo I'll just post up the guild name and horror of horrors if some name on some list on the internet doesn't get corrected for days, weeks or years, so what?

The lists will be mostly accurate, that's all I or anyone without SOE providing authentication information can provide. If Machin Shin hasn't actually beaten any raid that hasn't been posted on their front page, so what? Stick some fake wins on a web page if that makes a group of retired EQ players happy. The alternate reality where SR is #6 and RA is #7 on some list on the internet would be really similar to this reality.

There are a lot of people spending a lot of time complaining on a non approved SOE list that, in the grand scheme of things, is nothing more than a epeen contest to see who legitimately is #1 or #4 or #9. It is like the magelo magicians who take out their specialized augments and replace them with stat Aug to boost themselves up a few more spots on a server/serverwide ranking that only applies to those who took the time to pay or manually create a magelo.

If you are laying on your death bed 10-50 years from now grumbling and muttering to yourself about that EQ guild who DA tanked Arx 1 one off and leap frogged your guild on EGL...then I would feel so sorry for you that you missed the big picture in the game of life.

raid much C? not just bout or ranking but ok.

Your summary is incorrect. It's a pretty decent list of guilds, what server they are on, whether they are progressing in current content or not, and links to their own sites. It's an excellent reference for players in the situation of needing to look for a place to call home.

The main problem is that it doesn't do that. 3 of the last 11 raids are not listed.

Plane of War - average 3.2 wins per guild

1. Realm of Insanity - 06/23/2014 - all 7 raids beaten
2. Triton - 08/04/2014 - 6 wins
3. Shadows of Doom - 08/13/2014 - 4 wins
4. Inverse Logic - 08/24/2014 - 5 wins
5. Crimson Tempest - 09/07/2014 - 1 win

6. Freelance - 09/12/2014 - 1 win
7. Ring of Valor - 09/15/2014 - 6 wins
8. Machin Shin - 09/22/2014 - 4 wins
9. Silent Redemption - 09/29/2014 - 2 wins
10. Pain and Glory - 10/02/2014 - 2 wins

11. Descendents - 10/09/2014 - 2 wins
12. Sol Invictus - 10/13/2014 - 1 win
13. The Silent Minority - 10/16/2014 - 1 win

The Guilds not on that list in order of beating Journey Home

1. Valhallah - 07/23/2014 - 0 wins
1. Fire and Fury - 07/23/2014 - 2 wins
14. D'Pikeys - 07/27/2014 - 1 win
14. Township Rebellion - 07/27/2014 - 2 wins

16. Lunacy Unbound - 07/28/2014 - 0 wins
18. Firestormers - 07/31/2014 - 1 win
19. Final Empire - 08/03/2014 - 2 wins
19 Enceladus - 08/03/2014 - 1 win

21. Phoenix Rises - 08/06/2014 - 2 wins (only 1 listed since I don't have Arx1 date)
22. Iratus Lepus - 08/09/2014 - 1 win
23. Raging Fury - 08/11/2014 - 1 win
25. Silent Resurgence - 08/25/2014 - 1 win

26. Five Rings - 08/26/2014 - 1 win
27. Infinite Elysium - 08/27/2014 - 0 wins
28. Fu World Order - 09/15/2014 - 1 win
29. The Darkwind - 09/21/2014 - 0 wins
29. Hellfire Club - 09/21/2014 - 1 win

29. Reckless Ascension - 09/21/2014 - 3 wins
32. Infinit / E'ci Public - 10/01/2014 - 1 win
33. Red Band Brigade - 10/07/2014 - 1 win
34. Ancient Dominion - 10/12/2014 - 1 win
35. Symphony of Arms - 10/25/2014 - 0 wins

36. Legions of Blackburrow - 10/28/2014 - 0 wins
37. Resolution of Erollisi Marr - 12/02/2014 - 0 wins

So grats to Reckless Ascension, your success level in the previous expansion is just what is most likely to predict your success in the next expansion, it's certainly possible to exceed or fall short of that level.

But if someone was looking for a new guild late in CotF because "mid-tier" wasn't good enough, you have 2 out of 24 guilds who didn't beat PoWar with an Arx2-4 win to date and 8 out of 13 with a PoWar win during CotF that have an Arx 2-4 win.

Once upon a time EGL did allow guilds to compare genitalia and then Machin Shin got their face caved in by PoWar and it hasn't allowed guilds to genuinely see how they stack up since.

We did the one off raid 2 after we did Lucia and won it, personally when we wont do one off raid 1 until we get the expansion down that should be soon (tm).

Due to dedication alone ROI is clearly the top guild in EQ.

However, ranking guilds is all fine and serves it's purpose but there are plenty of things making it flawed on a skill level. Before anyone jumps me for saying this I also believe ROI has highly skilled players and highly dedicated both... That's why they're number 1.

If you want a level ranking system that is accurate a few things have to be considered.

1- None of the guilds competing should test beta. If a guild tests beta they have all raid info instantly and it's enough to make a viable strategy. Using this guide from developers they test the raids and adjust that strategy until it's easily won on the first attempt. I know this because we did beta and got to test a couple raids via appointment with developers. The 2 raids we tested at full strength we won first attempt. Raid 1 and the 2nd one off.

2- The number of attempts to win must be taken into account.

3- The date of the first win should be altered or not considered as the only statistic to be number 1.

The guilds that bust their butt to test beta and learn raids before live are very dedicated and skilled both but it gives them an advantage over those who did not.

When the servers go live and the first raid day shows up the higher skilled guilds will jump out in front. However dedication to raid 7 days a week and long hours will eventually take the lead over guilds that raid 2 or 3 nights a week and get what they get only on those days.

In the end the highest skilled guild that has dedication to raid a lot wins the race and that's clear but I don't believe it would be spread out so much and the race would be much closer.

Regardless the system serves a purpose and there's no other way to track it minus logs or trust. The primary reason for ranking isn't just bragging it's also to recruit players.

My 2 cents for what it's worth. Ending beta testing with strategies given to competing guilds would be a good step in the right direction of not only ranking but having content last longer.

blah blah blah

Before anyone else takes this too seriously and doesn't see the sarcasm or point... Insaneox is pointing out that because these events don't give keys, they have no real value in progression, or any 'progressing' through the raid key process in any way. Thus, saying just do only that raid and see how long it takes to key (I.e., never.) They are bonus raids, or loot pinatas, however they have no bearing on the race to the top.

I would have never thought I'd have to explain that until I scrolled up a bit.

Thanks for the props! A year ago at this time it was a group of 25-32 players killing NToV dragons. Going all the way through RoF, then CotF and doing well in TeDiouS is something we're very happy with and proud of