Non-Raiding Necromancers

So if we are understanding this correctly, Necromancers are nerfed to make mana a resource again, but all the other mana abilities in the game were left as is. Can you explain to us why Necromancers for the most part were singled out?

Changes in power are tough to swallow sometimes, but when you nerf one class when others have similar or better mana regen your arguments for why it was needed seem like excuses.

No one here wants other classes included in the nerf, but it's a stupid excuse to say you want mana to be a resource again when what you really mean is you want mana to be more of a resource to one particular class, not the game as a whole.

Thank you for responding, Piestro.

Elidroth posted: The intent of this change is the make mana a resource again. For a very long time now, Necromancers have operated in raid environments with effectively unlimited mana. This is the reason for the change. Death Bloom is still a useful ability, but we just don't want it being used continually.

Is this the clear statement you are referring to, sir? If so, then I can agree that it is, in fact, a very clear statement.

It does not, however, reconcile with the change that SOE has chosen to put into place to address the stated issue. It does not ring true. It is false. That is what the majority of posters in 22 pages have tried to express to SOE. Your statement that SOE is trying to "make mana more of a resource again" is only part of the stated intent. The other part of the reason stated, that you did not include, refered specificly to necromancers operating in raids. ("Necromancers have operated in raid environments".)

Giving a false statement, even a clear one, is not sitting well with this community.

This is a thread about Non-Raiding Necromancers. According to the statement made by Elidroth, we are, supposedly, the unintended target. Colateral damage. Yet, our questions are not addressed. Did Elidroth mispeak and mean to say SOE intended to make mana a resource for all necromancers?

Yes, you have addressed some things in this thread and have garnered some respect from some, myself included. But you are still dancing around the main subject point of this thread. SOE is not addressing / responding, in a satisfactory manor, the grievance brought to you by the community.

There is a lot of frustration and anger felt on the community side. I expect that there is likely some of the same felt on the SOE side. The whole thing could be better dealt with, on both sides, if some meaningful, true communication were taking place. For 22 pages the ball has been idle in the court of SOE. Anytime you guys want to actually discuss it, some of us are still here waiting. Alot of us have simply quit. As in, stopped funding your company.

I have to put some thought into putting those last few dots on something to make sure they run their course. Maybe a Swift now instead of another Termination or Shadow. No more throwing 3 more dots on something when it is at 7% health. Actually have to manage my mana better like my other casters.

Just going to throw this out there. If the target of this modification is raiding necromancers then perhaps the timer increase to 10 minutes should be while within a 'raid' zone - similar to how the OOC time is 5 minutes instead of 30 seconds in such zones. In that way grouping/soloing necromancers would be unaffected (which perhaps was the intent?).

Ive said it before since this came into play, As a raid geared necro... THIS BARELY EFFECTS ME ON RAIDS (i never stopped using blood magic). However... Soloing and grouping... THIS SUCKS!!!! i spend most of my time at very very low mana or waiting on OOC regen while trying to do your NEW kill 60 stupid mobs "heroic adventure" ALL you have managed to do is slow down progression of the grouping side of this game.

This should be easily doable. Just set recast to 5 min. + ooc timer. Group game would end up with 5.5 min recast, raid game would be unchanged at 10 min. recast.

Shafted in the expansion. Shafted on mana. Shafted on dots. You really expect people to pay for that?

Mana wont be a scarce resource on my necro as I wont be playing. Money will be a very slightly scarcer resource at SOE though.

The question I have is SOE and the team listening, and ready to admit that the nerf was too much? As a casual player I have a major problem with SOE taking the stance that they have taken many times before....where they look and listen only to the top 1% of EQ, the "so-call" elite raiders, then make changes to the game based on their findings and break a specific class's gameplay. They did it with bards, they did it with wizards, they did it to enchanters, they did it to clerics, and now necros.

The game itself has turned into a two sided game because of this, the groupers and the raiders. Now the raiders are admitting that this nerf that was designed to limit them hasn't cause any real effect, so the nerf is a failure. Yet the group gamers are screaming that this has seriously hurt their gameplay, so you do nothing?

It has been stated that you want MANA to become a resource again, so SOE specifically targets Necros? How is this going to effect everyones mana?

You said that it does not destory the Necromancer class.....sure it doesn't, but it makes it like being a cleric when the mercs were installed, sure its no a class breaker, that why you see so many groups now crying "Group seeking Cleric/Healer". What it does do is take away from the class. When you do this you are ruining the experience of the game for a certain group of people. So we feel targetted, angry, and we will stop paying/playing the game.

Think of it in terms of another beam kiting debate. Wizzy's were specifically targetted and had their beam nerfed, yet Mages retained their beaming ability. Now go and check and see how many mages are on compared to Wizzy.....Lets look at Ranger numbers pre and post HS nerf.......Lets look at bards after the charm/aoe nerf, clerics after merc were installed......starting to see the picture?

These types of nerfs do nothing but hurt group content. Next thing you are going to see is their aren't anyone playing the classes you specifically target and we got nothing but swarming SKs and Zerkers, and a ton of mages camping named.

You might laugh at this statement, but serious look at the current gameplay.....its all I see everyday and all day long. SOE needs to start caring more about the day to day casual gamers and their experiences rather then seeing if the abilities of the elite are overpowered due to being able to cruise thru content most of us will never see.

This is why a lot of people say you guys don't know what is going on in your own game. It is really quite simple. Remember how raid ADPS got out of hand for Melee on raids, and because of that it made melee in the group game when they didn't have full support? Sure you do because people still gripe about it non-stop now.

You guys did the same exact thing for Mana Recovery for casters on raid. That is for all casters; Necro, Wiz, Cleric, Druid, etc. We all have what amounts to endless mana on raid, the only thing that changes that is dying, and that is only tempory. The only time I, and all the other raiding Necros I know, ever use Deathbloom is in combination with Mod Rods after we die to get back into the fight instantly. Just did the last event for the expansion, have a 15 minute parse of nonstop casting, and finished that fight with 82% mana. The other Necros, Chanter, and Druid in group all had even more. Didn't have to use DB or BM once and I don't have a particularly stellar mana pool because I give HInt, Mana, and Mana Regen ZERO consideration for gear because of the insane mana recovery everyone gets on raid. We didn't even have our bard tonight, otherwise we all would have been FM at the end.


Your changes only hurt groupers, and badly, because you do not understand what is actually going on in your game. I could care less about the changes, hell you could remove DB for all I care. It is that you guys have no clue that irks me. If someone doesn't knock some sense into you guys you'll end up gimping all the grouper casters like you did the grouper melee, and that is bad for the game. It's like the pet nerf a few monthes back. You guys didn't even address the actual issue because once again you don't even know what the real issue is. You hurt groupers, but the pet tanking went right on as if nothing changed in raids.

started playing EQ in 2000, took a 5 year break that ended roughly 2 years ago. I'm full back into it now as a Necro only recently but it is my main now with more AA's than any other, I put alot of time into it. Now I feel COMPLETELY betrayed. I logged on the first day of that expansion expecting to have the 10 minute timer I read about in the notes. But 10 minutes is WAY too long of a nerf, 6 minutes I could understand but 10 , really ? 10 ?. I forget its even there at that point.
Playing my favorite character now SUCKS. I have 2 accounts and I have spent maybe 8 minutes playing in the last 2 days, I feel like my subscription money is being wasted. I might just have to take another 5 year break if something doesn't make the game enjoyable for me like it was before. The worst part is all of the money I wasted until now in the EQ store on items for that character that are probably going to be put inactive. Time to call customer service and whine to a person who cares at least enough to listen to a voice instead of just read forums, even if nothing comes of it at least I'll feel better.

Listen to my gold accounts expire... here that sony? Back to XBOX Live

hear*

The post skipped over "Death Bloom is still a useful ability, but we just don't want it being used continually." and gave short shrift to "The intent of this change is the make mana a resource again."

I missed where Elidroth wrote that he wants Death Bloom to be used continually and mana not to be a resource for Necros in group content.

If a few Necros quit because their "I Win" button is made smaller in group content, that's more opportunity for the players who continue to play (more mobs not soloed, more spots to fill in groups, more guilds with openings,...) I have seen 1 (one) ragequit because he was used to being overpowered - how DARE SOE address an imbalance! - there's wasn't even the merest ripple created by his departure.

Frankly I see no reason someone who could solo most group mobs that don't summon, was perpetually at the top in raid boss mob fights, could FD pull, doesn't perform well in swarm groups when fastkill for experience has lost much of it's importance, etc. would consider for even a nanosecond quiting,

SOE surely doesn't want to chase players out of the game - but players saying they are leaving over an adjustment has never IIRC inhibited SOE from making and keeping needed changes.

On an off note - angry people suck!

Having people quit is never a good thing.

Having people quit means...

Fewer people to play with... less fresh blood to recruit new applicants from as vets burn out...and less socializing.

Like others have said, this nerf has no effect on the ability to kill a mob. What it does do, for solo/group play, is one of two things:

1. Force us to be much more conservative, making our dps terrible.

2. Force us to have to med every 10 min.

All it does is ruin our sustainability, which is what this class is supposed to be all about. Have some creativity if you think it's so OP all of a sudden (even though it was already weaker than ever). Make the HP penalty larger/longer, make our lich better/more deadly - either of these would have been a better solution, in my opinion. Having to lifetap more often would keep us on our toes. That's something that has been missing for a while - the feeling of danger when we use our hp/mana conversion abilities. Please consider other options.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=21754
Sparxx Mar 02 2010 at 9:44 AM
"I would not be surprised if this gets nerf'd soon. "

We already have one of the weakest pets of casting classes. Now our dps has gone down, we are unable to keep mana up in group situations and kill much slower than any other casting class. What role does the necro have in the game now?

We already have one of the weakest pets of casting classes. Now our dps has gone down, we are unable to keep mana up in group situations and kill much slower than any other casting class. What role does the necro have in the game now?

I parsed my necro (lvl 100, bazaar/T1 ROF group geared, RK II spells; usual 3 fast dot + 2 pet spell rotation) vs a DPS merc (Journeyman V on burn) today. After 10 minutes the merc had done 90% of my DPS but...and here is the perverse bit:

I WAS ON 5% MANA, THE MERC WAS ON 95%+ MANA.

I guess this nerf has put us on equal footing to melee DPS classes...we're now all inferior to mercs.