Work In Progress: What's Next for Arena PvP

There is a major imbalance between PVP tiers in gear. There is also a major imbalance with WM in PVP because it is doing crazy damage especially to those in in lower gear(starter gear).

I think the PvP Soders should work like Trinkets as they do in Legends, but have the strength of the Soders increase with the Tier level of the gear they're paired with in the Vendor. Example...

T1 PvP Soder Trinket: 300 - 700 Health regen
T2 PvP Soder Trinket: 1000 - 1500 Health regen
T3 PvP Soder Trinket: 1800 - 2200 Health regen
T4 PvP Soder Trinket: 2500 - 3000 Health regen

...and so on.

Just an idea.

Also, I think a player equipped with a PvE weapon should do little to laughable damage against a player wearing PvP gear in a PvP phase of open world. Perhaps buff the Toughness stat on the PvP gear so that PvE weapons are not so effective against any kind of PvP gear. It's crazy that a PvE DPS can almost kill a player wearing all Elemental Android gear.

So tunso seeing as heal and tank damage penalties are leaving us in u38 does this mean our changes are coming too or are arenas gonna be a controller free zone for a while?

@Frankzilla

You said it right here Franky, and also made a false statement as I have never agreed with you that anyone is invulnerable using EC or TM....

You have said it many times in this thread, more than I count actually. If that wasn't what you meant, you need to choose your words better going forward, how are we supposed to have a debate if you can't get a clear concise point across? You constantly change your stance about things that we have discussed when I prove you wrong. Also, now that you claim you are reading the descriptions for these mods, EC states "no longer vulnerable to interrupt, prevent standard control effects" (a standard control effect is a weapon cc), and TM "no longer vulnerable to interrupt". Again, there are far more counter measures that exist in game aside from an interrupt, believe it or not.

You should really take your own advice and listen to those of us who know how to stop channeled abilities coupled with EC on a consistent basis. Just because you can't do it, as you yourself admitted in your last post to me, does not mean everyone is on the same boat. Stop contradicting your own points with more contradictions. The bottom line is, HT rewrote how combat works in PvP. HT forces us to think outside the box of the vanilla counter trinity by forcing to utilize all the different counter measures that always existed.

Like everything in this game, some tactics work for certain situations, and do not work for others. An interrupt works against block breakers and other channeled abilities that are not covered by EC, but when certain channeled abilities are used in conjunction with EC and interrupts do not work in those particular situations, I assure you it is not game over. You simply need to be well versed in our combat system to adapt on the fly and utilize a different counter measure, that we all have access to.

Just because you can't interrupt a handful of abilities with a lunge if your opponent is using the EC mod, does not mean you cannot utilize another counter measure like a stun, encasement, etc. I'd also like to point out that a breakout trinket negates the push and stun of mini-gun, and so does the blinking immunity from using breakout yourself. As I have been saying this entire time, we all have access to the same HT tactical mods and trinkets and the exact same counter measures. The only difference between who wins is which player fully understands the combat system and how to utilize its mechanics properly with precise timing and execution. All you did with your last post is prove that my "assumption" was correct when you said countering the EC mod is "not possible". It most certainly is possible, I and others in this very thread, are successfully countering these mods on a consistent basis. You should really start reading this thread, so you too would see that for yourself.

HT adds such diversity to PvP, and it would be a tragedy to remove such an important piece of this games evolution from PvP, especially when it was actually designed for both PvE and PvP. Don't get me wrong, if it is removed, then it's removed. Skillful players will still be skillful players, regardless. However, the way HT keeps us on our toes in PvP is what is most enjoyable, it keeps us guessing, and forces us to think on the fly because we never know what our opponent is going to do next with these mods and trinkets. HT adds so many strategies to PvP, and like I've said countless times it successfully evolved PvP passed its vanilla state.

HT most definitely should not be removed, and PvP be devolved, just because a handful of people may or may not fully understand how important timing and execution is in PvP. Believe me, there is no luck in successfully countering these mods, it's all skill. The key again is proper timing and execution. The biggest piece of "misinformation" so far, is you claiming that the EC and TM mod cannot be countered with other counter measures. You need to accept the fact that interrupt is not the "end all be all" of counter measures.

^Tunso, Please give us an update so giggles can stop with the same wall of text every time he posts on here. Please!!!

Honestly though, I think wm is the biggest problem in pvp. 1v1, it turns the match into "first counter wins". 4v4 and up it's too hard to focus on everyone, so a player can fly off and kill you with a range wm attack before you even have a chance to lunge him. Wm is just too strong for pvp, players just don't have the health of t6 adds and bosses, since it seems like wm was created with pve balance in mind, not pvp.

Its a wiping frenzy atm in arena. Fun but has its limitations skill is being replaced by big hits for now but theres no doubt our new gear has to have this in mind when health levels are set. Another reason I cant see these changes being left beyond u38 before we see them. I really hope its not longer than that

Have you read the OP yet? The reason I ask is because in the OP Tunso clearly stated there was going to be a revamp of PvP gear and stats per role. So we are more than likely going to be a getting a ton of HP and toughness in our new gear to compensate us for the damage done by weapon mastery.

Something else to consider, with the lockout of PvE gear and consumables from arenas, PvP weapons will most likely be given a set about of DPS instead of being the current 77.9 damage and add X amount of precision in combat. If the PvP weapons are given a solid DPS number instead of a precision boost the way they currently are, then deadly block will not be as big of an issue for most as it is now.

One last thing to consider, I think the Arenas have it set up pretty nicely with the crit caps and prec buff caps. The OP clearly stated that they can now separate PvE and PvP changes, so there is a really good chance that the prec and crit caps that exist in Arena will become universal as well for both arena and open world PvP.

The OP has a lot of important information, you should definitely go check it out. Oh and also please check out the first few pages of this thread. Tunso said he wanted to know about HT more than anything else since it was still up for consideration.

Speaking hypothetically is useless until we get more info... If you read the op you will see that nothing you mentioned about more health, removing prec bonuses to pvp weapons, nothing of such is stated there other than fully separating pve and pvp and that bit about consumables. Sure, you can jump to conclusions, but I'd much rather get info from the devs than from you. When your statements start with "more than likely" that more than likely is not solid info and more than likely not useful to me

Speaking hypothetically, jumping to conclusions and assuming is irrelevant when facts can get you much further . And since you're so good at assuming, you should assume that if someone is posting in this thread, they at the very least read the op. What I didn't read is the hundreds if posts of you repeating the same thing

I read your entire novel but I put emphasis on this point right here. How can you point out a specific so called vanilla trinity then say different counters that always existed. Exactly so there is no trinity but you are right we are being FORCED to play a certain way because ppl complained about being interrupted they couldn't adapt and ht mods were created. Ive never changed my stance you say there is no invulnerability I say it is invulnerability to interrupts obviously.

You change stances when your wrong first there is no invulnerability then there is invulnerability to interrupt then theres no invulnerability because you can take damage then the invulnerability only last 1 to 2 secsaccording to you. Obviously you struggle with making up your mind. Just as you pointed out how a break out trinket can negate minigun it can also negate you stuns or encases that dont work anyway. Which I previously stated on multiple occasions about break out trinkets you didnt even acknowledge it until it has some use for your message.

But my main issue is these invulnerability mods have been and are being used to manipulate counter windows. Which are already messed up and need nothing else tampering with them. Pls dont come out saying that it doesn't exist that would be more misinformation on your part.

@Blade Damone

Are you new to PvP in this game? The reason I ask is because it is common knowledge that with each new season of PvP gear, or tweak to Arenas as a whole, there are usually stat changes, and increased HP is usually one of the stats that gets increased. I mean just look at the bump of HP from the original T1 set of PvP gear (the two face, ursa, etc sets) and then take a look at the Android set). Also if you think about it, with all of us getting the same base stats and the only difference in our stats is the mods we socket is fair to assume there will be drastic changes to all stats.

As I said, these are only logical changes based on past changes as well as what information we have already been given. It's also fair to expect increased HP not only because of past tier PvP sets, but also because of how much damage WM does as a whole. All of this would make more sense if you read the part in the OP where Tunso said they finally have a new system in place to separate and adjust things for PvE and PvP separately.

Are you new to logical reasoning? The reason I ask is because with health increases, usually come stat increases. So yes, we will "more than likely" have more health, but we also will hit harder, this is true with every new set of gear. So a simple increase in health won't fix people getting one shotted with weapon mastery since players will be hitting harder.

Again, I'd prefer not discussing an imaginary scenario based on your assumptions with you. Please discuss facts and changes that are set in stone, like the removal of debuffs and pve from pvp. But, don't talk to me about what you interpret the op to say, I can really care less.

And if you think I'm new to pvp, send me a pm, I will be more than happy to show you how "new" I am in game.

It's simple Franky, when everything could be countered only by a block, interrupt, or block breaker it was not required to use all the tools at ones disposal. That vanilla counter trinity was the end all be all of counters and all anyone ever really needed to be successful. When they released HT all of that changed. The vanilla counter trinity was still there and still useful and important in some situations, but HT made sure that we were forced to use every kind of counter measure, as some were made useless in certain situations (ie interrupt no longer working on some channeled abilities when coupled with EC). The only thing we are forced to do is learn the combat system to its fullest extent, and use all, not just some of the tools available. Thus, the complexity I keep talking about that HT added to the game when it evolved PvP to the next level.

Now in your second paragraph you are taking things way out of context. If you go back and read this thread it was you claiming EC and TM made people completely invulnerable. I am the one constantly saying that everything has a counter, and nothing is completely invulnerable like you are falsely claiming. It is you struggling to make up your mind about which argument you are trying to use in this discussion. Also, like I said, we all have the same tools available such as EC, TM, breakout trinkets, stuns, shields, sodas, etc. So it all comes down to who the better player is utilizing these mechanics and properly timing and executing their attacks and counter measures. Again, this is strategy that HT adds to PvP.

EC does not "manipulate counter windows". Again Franky, an opponent using EC can only avoid being interrupted and STANDARD control effects (weapon stuns). Thus the counter window is open to many other forms of counter measures. It is all about the timing and execution. Regardless whether some struggle with the proper timing and execution needed to battle against these mods, it all comes down to skill. HT raised the bar for required combat know how in PvP. This is the new level of skill that HT brought to PvP.

Lastly, you really need to stop taking things out of context and go back and re read your own posts. The only one spewing out "misinformation" is you by claiming that these "invulnerability mods" (which they are clearly not, if you read their descriptions) "are being used to manipulate counter windows" (when they are clearly doing no such thing, as I and others have proved throughout this thread). Again, I have no trouble with counter windows and these mods, so you must be doing something wrong if you are making the false claims that these mods "manipulate counter windows" in a negative way. Those last three (3) sentences of your latest post are complete misinformation. Thus making your previous post a complete contradiction, again.

You need to accept the fact that HT was the next to step for PvP evolution, and it evolved PvP from simply block, block break, and interrupt, into a much more complex and strategy oriented form of play that requires all aspects of the combat system from the vanilla counter trinity to stuns, encasements, shields, sodas, trinkets, etc. to battle some of these mods. If I can do it without any trouble, anyone can, and I have trouble battling these mods. That I assure you.

@Blade Damone

I guess you didn't read the OP then. They said they have a system that can adjust mechanics specifically in PvP without it effect PvE. With this tool, they could logically lower the damage in PvP that WM puts out. Also, I'm glad you agree that more health (and most likely toughness) is coming with this update to PvP in general, as I said. That new system that allows them to alter our abilities and weapons without it effecting PvE is what WILL fix the problems you are describing. Please go back and read the OP for the specifics.

I dont need to accept anything thats where your wrong. How is contradicting core mechanics evolution your like the ppl tryna ban guns saying overriding the constitution is evolution. it was never only block, block breakers, and interrupts cause everything else is in the same category. For example if I use 35 % without ec mod because its the only way you can do anything; and you use a stun you stun is interrupting me so its included its not seperate from interrupts as you make it out to be. The only way you can pull it off is if they aren't immune to you cc effects and you use the move befote the mod activates FACTS.

Tryed with league mate of mine both with ec mod will be posting video proof something you refuse to do. He used sand blast which does a stun I used minigun which does stun and push back. whenever we timed it perfect we both be in animation no interrupts because mods activated at same time, a split second one way or the other there would be interrupts if hit with stun before mod activates.

I totally agree...the specifics were never stated of HOW they will get to where they are describing--and tbh the devil is in the details. HOW they do these changes is going to make a world of difference in whether or not this will be successful.

WM for instance looked good on paper and new PVE content was designed with it in mind, but PVP and old PVE content became trivial with the new damage numbers. This mechanic alone needs to be balanced within itself, not by gear stats, but within the core mechanics. In PVP balancing mechanics around gear instead of themselves leaves multiple situations where players without the gear end up taking huge damage with no mitigation. This is discouraging when such blatant disadvantages exist.

The original discussions from the devs stated WM would require a similar skill level to be good at as was required with clipping, HOWEVER the main damage doesn't even come from timing the PI--it is from the combo'd precision damage just before the power. Personally I think they should reduce the precision damage and nearly triple the PI power follow-up attack, heal, etc so that completing the combo and timing provides a REAL reward, not just a reduced power cost. If they are really able to totally separate PVP from PVE, show it here first imo.

HT is attached to a DLC and anyone unfamiliar with the game may not realize that PVP in its current incarnation requires these to be competitive--which is sad. PVP should get its own set of mods that do not ignore core mechanics and are available to ALL levels of players. Balance them around this new PVP design and provide options for players that actually want to play support instead of DPS.

Regarding the conversation as a whole, I think the lack of dev response shows clearly they are considering PVP the red-headed step child and will get around to it when they want. Hopefully by the time they decide to act people will still want to use it for more than grinding feats.

@Frankzilla

You are right in that all of these mechanics have always existed, the part you are not understanding is that before HT, nothing except block, block breaker, interrupt was really needed. Sure they were there, but the vanilla counter trinity was the answer to every problem placed in front of you. When HT was released and took PvP to the next level, it made it so that the the vanilla counter trinity was no longer the solution to all problems. Sure the vanilla counter trinity is still useful in certain situations, but there are times when even that vanilla counter trinity is useless and one must learn to utilize the rest of the system that has always existed to properly utilize another counter measure.

There you go contradicting yourself again. You say EC and TM ignore core combat mechanics, yet in the next sentence you say that stuns, encases, etc, have always been part of the core system, and they do not ignore those mechanics. You really need to get your argument straight. Again, what HT did was add depth and raise the skill bar in PvP. Before HT everything was extremely simple, X countered Y in all situations. Now with HT X counters Y, but only if X utilizes A due to Y utilizing B. Thus again, the skill and complexity that HT added was an evolutionary step for PvP because HT forces us to think and utilize all the tools in our tool box. Since we all have access to the same DLCs, and the same mods, weapons, power sets, etc., it all comes down to who the better player is at properly executing and countering someone using the same tools.

As I have said countless times in this thread, whatever happens, happens. I have been here since beta and I am extremely familiar with how every version of PvP in the past has worked. My preference is that HT stays but I am behind whatever the devs decide. I do feel the best option would be to create two playlists within the arena tab with the same map rotations, only one playlist is NO HT allowed, the other is ALL HT allowed. It doesn't have to be permanent, this would just be a good way to see what the actual in game community prefers as a whole. I think a in game vote or a playlist that allows both styles to coexist is justified by the obvious split on this topic. I'd also like to point out that your gun analogy is backwards, because it is you trying to take away the rights we have been given. Please, stop contradicting yourself.

This is a bit off from what I was getting at, I was moreso trying to step away from the argument of whether it belongs in there, and push towards what needs to happen should they decide to allow tact mods to stay.

This is just a downright snide and stupid remark.

When starting a new toon, you're forced to learn basic counter mechanics, where it demonstrates that specific moves are vulnerable to interrupt, or follow a certain guideline. Home Turf rewrites some of those guidelines (as Giggles has pointed out), and in turn, this could cause some confusion for new players. So I'm NOT saying that's the sole reason that it should be removed, but I was moreso making the inclination that SHOULD HT Tact mods be permitted indefinitely, then they should be available to ALL people (F2P and Premium), since they change mechanics from what they learn early on.

Weapon Mastery is a huge change in mechanics as well, and was made available for all. I think if we're to be on even footing, this should fall under the same category.

As far as my stance goes, I couldn't care less about the Tact mods, but if I had to go one way or another, I'd rather just remove them permanently (although this is irrelevant to the statement I was making).

My only problem right now with PvP is as a F2P I can't buy even a complete set of Aeronaut gear, which makes me assume that PvP utterly pointless for F2P and Pay to Win.

I mean seriously, Aeronaut chestplate costs $1566. 66 bucks higher than a F2P limit. Why?

*Incoming "Buy a sub or leave" comments*

Couldn't agree me (and I'm Legendary.) What POSITIVE incentive is there for you to even consider a sub. PVP gear should not cost ANY cash whatsoever, just marks and maybe bring back influence as the "cash" currency of PVP.